Navy Adm. Craig S. Faller, commander of U.S. Southern Command, speaks at the Atlantic Council about the global web of illicit activities by Argentina’s Maduro regime, August 13, 2020.
Transcript
Good morning. I’m Jason Mars at the director of the Adrienne Arsht Latin America Center at the Atlantic Council. Thank you. Over joining us today for this incredibly important discussion at a critical moment for Venice. Fella, I like this first off by thinking. Yeah, Advil. Craig Faller, the commander of U S Southern Command, for taking the time to join us A Thank you, Admiral. Follow. Great to see you. As always. Denise Natali, assistant secretary at the Bureau of Conflict and Stabilization operation the U. S department States carry Phil Petty, deputy assistant secretary of the Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs of State Department on also dug for up president of I B I consultants. And I’ll also say, in Atlantic Council author 2020 has been quite a challenging and tumultuous year across the grow, especially, we have seen some of the devastating effects of the Corona virus pandemic across the world, in particular in our region, in Latin America and in Venezuela. In Venezuela’s well, we have an internationally recognized interim government that marked its first year. We have a growing humanitarian crisis that entered a new phase and the pandemic that has further strained a crippling health care system. It has already unable to provide even the most basic medicines to Venezuelan people, which is stowing also at the same time. Hyper, uh taken an economy this and hyper inflationary collapse and also social unrest across the country. We also have, as we look to the end of this year, a Carla mentally elections in Venezuela in December. They are also to be a sham parliamentary elections, among amid increasing repression of political opposition, Um, and the Maduro regime in Venezuela that continues to remain entrenched. A top priority for international Hala by Venezuela’s democratic forces should be disrupting and deterring global web of illicit activities and the nefarious external and non state partners that help to sustain Maduro and his backers. This is a critical step that requires coordinated international action to further open the pathway for the restoration of democracy in Venezuela. I like to reiterate the Atlantic Council’s commitment to helping to bring international attention and also action to achieve Democrats stability in Venezuela. Today we’re gonna focus on the glass Maduro’s expansive global illegal network and potential synergies on strategies to combat these activities and secure democratic restoration. Invest well this club conversation is also launching an Adrienne Arsht Latin America Center policy brief by contributing author Doug for A that investigates the origins of the Maduro regime is criminal activities and his connections to result in international players as well. This discussion is also marking, I’m very excited to announce is the formal launch of the centers new body of work in collaboration with the Atlantic Council. Scowcroft Steps Center for Strategy Security around Venezuela is focused on informing international allies of the interim government of Venezuela on new strategies to dismantle the regimes, at least it activities and the support that Nicolas Maduro receives from a line non state and states actors. Um, thank you all for joining us today. I’m not going to turn to Asia and arced the executive vice chair of the Atlantic Council, the founder and visionary of the Adrienne Arsht Latin America Center, as well as the founder of the Adrienne Arsht Rockefeller Foundation Resilience Center to introduce the admiral. Thank you, Jason, and I might mention that although I am sitting in my office in Washington, D. C. My background is my home in Miami, Florida and that’s where, uh, interim President Guido’s wife, Fabiana, stayed for the day while she I received many people in Miami to talk about the situation in Venezuela, and she received the key to the city of Miami from the mayor. As you can imagine, this was pre cope it. Over the years, the Adrienne Arsht Latin America center has brought awareness toe Latin America’s most pressing challenges, embracing my longstanding vision and view that the center would focus on the world’s perception of the region as a core partner and ally. And yet Venezuela, once a thriving democracy, today’s in one of its darkest times. With the complications of Kobe 19 and parliamentary elections soon to be held. This is a decisive moment for the prospects of a democratic restoration of Venezuela. I want to kick off today’s conversation by saying how very pleased I am. Welcome to this virtual meeting. A friend of the centre at a friend of mine, Admiral Craig Fowler, he’s the commander of the United States Southern Command, braised ill Miami and with his naval leadership and his extensive background throughout the military, he’s been our best leader for the critical operations that are now necessary in Latin America and Now I turn it over to you. Thank you very much. Adrian. Um, Admiral Fallar is Adrian said first will have several. Thank you. Thank you so much for your service and for and for being with us. Us here today, Uh, admiral and of a couple of questions for you. First off in April, South kind of launched an enhanced counternarcotics operation, the Caribbean. Uh, with drugs flowing from regime partnerships with criminal groups in Venezuela being a focus of those interdiction efforts. Of course, those eliciting are kind explosion are major security challenge the United States. But if I start by asking, why in particular are the illicit flows coming out of Venezuela such a great threat to United States interests first? Good morning, everyone. And thanks, Adrian, for the warm introduction, your friendship and Jason, Thanks for moderating this important conversation. Thanks for what the Atlantic Council does toe to have these important conference facilitate these important conversations about policy that affects the security, United States, the region in the world. And when we look at this region, there is so much promise. It’s so much potential. Look, it is a beacon of freedom. The numbers of democracies and what we all share really makes it a neighborhood. And you think about what constitutes neighborhood, the proximity to all of us, particularly United States. The values and democracies that we share for me, a piece of it. People Onda, of course, a huge intellectual human capital that they constitutes those people at Resource is a very resource rich neighborhood and all that is under assault. It’s under assault by a vicious circle threats, the center of which is, as you characterized, Jason Venezuela. But to get a Venezuela to march around that circle, it’s it’s young democracies and emerging institutions, and we need strong institutions. That’s really a key here to getting after the listen. Throat flows the’s corruption, which eats it, the democracies in the institutions. And it’s an environment that the transnational criminal organizations and narco terrorists have thrived on corruption. External state actors also thrive under the same conditions corruption of emerging institutions and young democracies, weak democracies, in some case, and we see Cuba, Russia, China, Iran, Nicaragua, then is well. All these countries mix it up in that space cove. It is complicated ability to do anything for for all these nations and also has really exasperated the problems as you mentioned, Uh, so Venezuela. It all comes together in Venezuela and just stepping back, and we look at what the impact has been. 5.2 million migrants. Human suffering. The increase. Drastic increase in narco trafficking coming out of Venezuela, which is killing lives, killing people here. United States. Where Miami, Pittsburgh, in the same Central America and throughout the hemisphere. And so at the heart of the threat. It’s the lives that air. We’re losing unnecessarily, and it’s the undermining of democracy. And that was the choice Maduro made to take the once thriving state into the current dictatorship. That it is Cove. It is a lot of the him to lock down even further on the power, and we see fork distance e l n actually having territorial expansion within the state. So all those threat vectors air headed in a in negative direction, which is a significant reason why we have up the amount of engagement we’re doing with our partners and launched are enhanced counternarcotics operation Advil. Thank you very much. You describe this this fragrance, this cocktail of security threats that we have emanating out of Venezuela. They of the trafficking, of course, that it was a gold mining, which criminal groups are very heavily involved. Money laundering, weapons trafficking, massive corruption, your your, uh just referencing the enhanced US narcotics operations and the working with regional allies in that regard. So I’d like toe pick up on that point and ask you specifically how is South of working with regional allies to disrupt some the illicit trafficking coming from Venezuela? A second part of that question is, what is the biggest challenge that you’re currently facing and doing so? Partners in this region are strong, and we have a good history working together, which has allowed us to adapt to the covert environment and allowed us to adapt to the the increase in the threat. So everything in the military to military realm, the security mention starts with intelligence sharing, and we do that and we’ve increased that as a result of the crisis in Venezuela. With one of our principal commands is Joint Interagency Task Force South in Key West, where we have 22 partner make nations. They’re all aligned there under the common threat of narco trafficking and the connection to Mr Maduro is his complicity in that threat. So the nations that go there, they go there for their national interest. But working together for the good of hemisphere, I had spent a success, and we have actually seen an increase in partner nation involvement. Ah, year to year last year to this year, currently about 50% of all our kind of narcotic operations have some involvement of a partner nation. That’s a Indyk, indicative of the importance of investing in partnerships over time, security cooperation funds and those sorts elements really play heavily in there. The challenge is, of course, going forward are the center of gravity for the Maduro regimes. Listed activities are Cuba, Russia, increasingly Iran and to a lesser extent, but an important extent, China. So, in order to get the true international unity that we need, and I’ll leave this to the diplomats that are on the call here to talk later, but nor to get the true international unity we need have unity in that space as well. And and we don’t and the longstanding involvement of Cuba, essentially Maduro’s intelligence service and all his presidential guard or Cuban controlled. It’s desperate. Orien guard is essentially a puppet. Eso to break at center of gravity is it is a bigger problem set and just cutting off the flows off, elicit money and illicit drugs and were working both The money part is part of the end of drugs as part of the U. S. Government and a whole nation approach. So So So we’ll talk. Talk about this next conversation, that combo moderate. But when we look at how the United States International Committee can really ramp up coordinated action to isolate the Maduro regime, it is when I’m hearing is really about the action against some of this state actors, the Russians, Cubans and others that are helping to keep these elicit flows. Movie You grew that I think that the center is we look at things. What keeps Maduro in power, what allows him to operate unchecked? What allows him to continue to strangle those population? Why has Venezuela turned into a virtual paradise for narco terrorists and and, uh, thugs and of all types on? And there’s interests that are running counter to the interests of human rights democracy? And I think that that’s one of the keys is is to shift that senator gravity away from Maduro. And there’s a lot of people working in this space. I think that us whole government efforts have been have been quite well knitted. Certainly the results haven’t gotten where we want him to be. But there’s been great partnerships with folks that are on the on the screen here today. Well, and with that s you all transition over to our panel. Thank you very much. Those those poison. And as you know, the Atlantic Council is also very committed to this effort. This is why we’re launching today. Are new effort on country Venezuela’s illicit flows. They are left. Let the agent are slight. America Center inquiry sparked Scowcroft Center for Strategy Security because, as you’re saying, the disrupting those illicit flows are going to be critical for wrapping up the pressure on Maduro on his stranglehold on on Venezuela society. Um, I’m now going toe. Uh, Admiral introduced the other speakers. Teoh ground out the panel conversation. First, Denise Natali is joining us to the serves as the assistant secretary for the Bureau of Conflict and Stabilization operations at the State Department, Denise previously served as the director of the Center for Strategic Research of the Super National Strategic Studies and at the National Defense University. She has also has a number of experiences across the world encountering conflict on a moving for a conflict stabilization operations. More, More broadly, uh, this is Inspector Valley Great. Great to have you with us today. Always a pleasure to welcome you and today to welcome you to the Virtual Dina Council, Also joined today by Kerry. Phil Betty, who serves as the deputy special representative for Venice, Fell and also the deputy assistant secretary of state from Venezuela in Cuba and the Bureau of Western Hemisphere affairs at the State Department. Carrie uh Petty previously served as senior policy adviser for the U. S. Mission United Nations, where she advised Ambassador Nikki Alien if she’s related. Counterterrorism Middle Eastern, Western Hemisphere Since Dr Talley felt. Since I felt pretty great to have you say Thanks for joining us on day, always a pleasure again to welcome you to the Atlantic Council. Dug for Roswell. Doug is the present of national national security consulting firm. I’d be I consultants is also a senior visiting fellow at the National Defense University Center for complex operations, and I will now adieu. Ducks title. Atlantic Council author Since he is the author Policy brief we are releasing today, which is titled The Maduro Regimes Elicit Activities. Ah, threat to democracy in Venezuela as security and Latin America. I’m not gonna have the conversation over to Diego idea my team. Diego leaves. The centrist Venezuela Works is joining us in December 2018 before being forced to leave Venezuela. Among other things, Diego was director of social developments in the municipality of Soup Today over to you, Diego. Thank you, Jason. And thank you, Admiral Father, for your insightful comments on the critical work that’s outcome is leading in the region. I want to kick off a nice discussion with our distinguished file assistant secretary Natali Welcome and thank you for participating in today’s discussion. I would like to start with you last February, right before the escalation of Korean 19 cases in the US to travel to Miami to discuss stabilization issues with civil military coordination is with senior South com leaders and later to Colombia to support the peace process implementation. What is the plan for the U. S and its allies to promote democratic stability in the region after a political resolution takes place in Venezuela. It specifically given the security threat off Colombian guerrilla groups. So just vision for and Ellen operating within Venezuelan territory. Thank you. Thank you, Diego. I’d also like to thank Jason for moderating Adrian, for your leadership and the age in our show are Latin American Center at the Atlantic Council. And, of course, to my colleagues and fellow Panelists. It’s an honor and a pleasure to be here this morning. David. The short answer to your question is that we are planning for stabilization in Venezuela and the region. The long answer, The longer answer is that my bureau, in coordination with our colleagues at at the Special Representative Abrams office, we have deputies and Secretary Philip any here, the Western Hemisphere bureau, South Calm and others. We are convening US interagency security sector planning for Venezuela. We are conducting Advanced Data Analytics to understand the operating environments and to improve our plans. No one aspect that you mentioned it that we’re focusing on specifically is the non state armed groups. As you know, the illegitimate Maduro regime survives by relying on this classic autocratic tools nowhere is this clearer than its collaboration and reliance on non state armed Bruce. To conduct these activities. Venezuela’s non state on girls present a unique challenge as they compose a complex, state supported network of gangs, drug traffickers and transnational terrorist networks, including the FARC dissidents and the deal. And, as you just mentioned, where the regime lacks the will and capacity to govern Venezuela, hollowed out by years of corruption and abuse, it instead has enabled the growth of these non state armed groups, creating an illicit patronage network and weakening legitimate institutions that these groups serve as a key tool of regime power. And they pose a serious threat to the future stability of both Venezuela and the region but providing a safe harbor to these groups. Maduro facilitates their transnational criminal economies, trafficking people and goods. But the important point is that this challenge is not insurmountable. We know that these groups are not monolithic. We know that they have a diverse agendas, allegiances and interests, the qualities that Maduro uses to keep them in line. Now, my bureaus, Advanced Data Analytics and the programs that were supporting have shown that these non state armed groups have an active presence in the capital and throughout every state. We know the 2/3 of these groups receive at least some kind of political and logistical support from the Maduro regime. So these diverse activities, tactics and motivations, therefore demands a nuanced and sophisticated approach. If we want to see to weaken them strategically, we recognize that non state armed substance cannot be managed by the United States alone. United States is committed to helping the Venezuelan people counter the threat of these groups. And my bureau is proud of the long standing partnership with Venezuela’s interim president on Why, though, and the opposition and our work supports their understanding of the threat of non state armed groups as we prepare for a political future. Thank you, Assistant Secretary Deputy for you, Betty. First of all, thank you again for joining us today. Now I would like to bring you into the conversation as we know. The support off international actors is further and Kareem in the region’s position and as a meal father mentioned, Russia, China, Turkey and Cuba have provided lifelines off support for my who was. Recently we have seen increasingly close Iran Venezuela ties which is concerning for the international community connected to that. Two weeks ago, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced that special representative for Venezuela Alien Arum’s will be also serving a special representative for Iraq. What does this mean for US policy towards Venezuela, specifically regarding illicit flows? Thank you very much, Diego. And thank you, of course. Teoh, Jason and Adrian as well. And it’s great to see my colleagues. I haven’t seen them in a very long time because of Covitz. So it’s it’s nice toe to be in the same room, so to speak together. You know, something that Assistant Secretary Natali mentioned is the non state actors and Diego you mentioned. Now there’s this other component, which is the state actors. On the one hand, when we see this increase in a relationship between Iran and Venezuela, it does signal something interesting for the United States, which is that far from being able to rely on its more traditional allies like Russia, Cuba, China, we’re starting to see them undertake the same sort of relationship they used to have with those countries now with Iran. And so that makes us think that the diplomatic and financial space between Venezuela and some of their more traditional, more capable allies is decreasing. So in some sense, I think seeing this expansion is reflective of of an opportunity. But what it reflects really is kind of the basis of this discussion, which is that as US sanctions and international sanctions have constrained the Maduro regime’s ability to finance itself through more traditional sources of income, we’re seeing them move to illicit sources, whether that’s illegal gold mining, whether that’s narco trafficking or whether it’s coordination with states like Iran. So we’re seeing that Iran is supplying um in material to Venezuela, and we’re working very closely with our international partners to try to limit Iran’s ability to supply the illegitimate Maduro regime in terms of the relationship between the two, though what we’ve seen in press reporting is that Maduro has illegally stolen about nine tons of gold bars that’s more or less the equivalent of $500 million on and sent them to Tehran in exchange for Iran’s assistance. It’s not immediately clear what type of assistance Iran is providing, which is of course really concerning for us as well, although we know that they have offered to assist in boosting Venezuela’s oil production. Obviously that hasn’t been successful, given that Venezuela has fallen from 3.3 million barrels of oil per day under Chavez to about 350,000 barrels per day under under Maduro. So I would say that it’s not exactly worth $500 million that that Venezuela has providing, but it does show that increasing cooperation, I think, going to your question about the special representative. First and foremost, we have Iran and Venezuela is two of the top priorities of the Trump administration. So the fact that they are now being handled by the same individual, I think highlights this growing symbiotic relationship. Special representative Abrams deeply understands that relationship between Venezuela and Iran he deeply understands Venezuela and Iran also separate. And apart from the relationship on DSO I ous, we seek to kind of confront this more multifaceted problem. Ensuring that this is all kind of under the same purview of the same individual will help us with that internal coordination. I think it’s a fantastic addition to special representative Abrams Portfolio Um, and we know that he is very well positioned to ensure that U. S policy is taking this more holistic approach to disrupting the illicit flows between Iran and Venezuela and support of our policy strategies for each country. Thank you very much. Temple. If you paid now it’s time to bring in or Atlantic Council author Douglas for our bowlers Wiggle. I like to ask you this in the policy brief were luncheon today, you characterize the mother regime as the leader off a regional quote unquote joint criminal enterprise. Could you please explain the regional and global nature off the regime’s criminal activities and the threats to security and political stability in 3% for art in America? Well, thank you gave Oh, and thank you to the Atlantic Council. It’s nice to see other folks showed assistant secretary not leave oversight my research the National Defense University for for a few years. And I’ve worked very closely with Admiral Fowler’s J two and other folks there for through the years. So I appreciate the opportunity. Um, I think what we’re to the point of what we’re trying to outline in this paper. In another work we’ve done in supportive the deputy assistant secretary for counter narcotics and global test of the Defense Department. His analyzing that is not a It is a consortium of states that now embrace transnational. Organized crime is a legitimate instrument of state power, and I think that is the fundamental tipping point between what we’ve seen with other regimes in the region and the ability of beginning with Chavez and, uh in the Castro brothers in Cuba, too intentionally knit together a community of criminal enterprises that allow them and their ultimate objective, which is to displace United States as much as possible from the region and bring in extra regional actors like Russia, Iran, China, Turkey as much as possible into the region. So I think you have to understand it as an intentional set up from the very beginning. Peta Vesa under Chavez was designed to launder money. That’s that was the primary purpose of the influx of billions of dollars that they could move. So you see Nicaragua laundering through the Ortega’s regime, tens of billions of dollars. You see the FMLA and all Salvador participating and laundering billions of dollars on behalf of bit of you. See all of these regional actors in Bolivia, UCF Mahmoud Abbas, carrying out certain roles in Ecuador under Josh Alcorn s. So you have the ability to adapt to different strategies of United States and others. We’re carrying out by immediately turning to your network of outside support and having them fill in the gaps. So what we’re seeing now in our research is that a lot of the gold from Venezuela is not going to make it. I win being exported from Nicaragua as Nicaraguan gold, which is a way to avoid sanctions only possible because of the alliance of intentionally criminalized states operating a criminal enterprise in which criminal activity is viewed as a necessary support for, uh, for state functions. And, I think a few years ago, and I was addressing NATO and, uh, her indie you when the speakers have said that the problem dealing specifically with Russia was that we think role playing soccer, and we think yellow card makes you will flow down game a red card, you’re expelled and with what the general said, Breedlove said at the time, was Russia’s not playing soccer. They’re playing polo on the same field, so they don’t care about yellow cards. They don’t care about red cards. They don’t care about any of that stuff, and that’s the way I think. For a long time we treated in a swell up as if they were playing the same game on the same field as we were now realizing that they had an entirely different game going on and that the traditional rules and ways of getting at them we’re not viable. And so you have the FARC udon directly supporting a criminal enterprise because they are criminal enterprises and it spreads to the states. I think that that is the with the papers doing. I greatly appreciate the council giving me the opportunity to publish this paper there. And this is an attempt to help understand the magnitude of what the network is, as opposed to being a Venezuela specific threat. Thank you very much. Do bliss A middle filing. It’s a pleasure to share these virtual floor with you today, I would like to ask you U S foreign policy has made extensive use off sanctions to put pressure on the majority. Despite the sanctions, Maduro continues to serve as the fact O’Leary minutes. Well, what tactics are you seeing on the ground that Maduro is taking to evade sanctions and also, what actions is self come taking and what other measures will it take to combat it? So they like to just pivot back to Doug’s Mr Faras comments about the extensive network, which is broader than Venezuela? I couldn’t I agree 100% with that assessment, and it’s a It’s a been a generation in building this network back to Chavez. And so that Web, that complex Web, which I characterizes this vicious circle is, ah is strangling democracy and undermining citizen security across this whole neighborhood. This hemisphere. And it’s alarming. And to the extent to which external state actors and mine actors both in the region and out our advantage ing of themselves of this is is extensive. And so when you look at the sanctions, I believe that pressure is working and that the whole of government pressure that the U. S. Has applied diplomatic and economic, um, has worked. The international unity has set conditions to work up to a point up to the point where the U. N wouldn’t be able to get on the same page because of involvement of the the actors that we’ve discussed and others have articulated here from colleagues at ST the the sanctions. The evading sanctions is a natural extension of the types of tactics techniques procedures that Maduro regime has been using to launder money. Make money, gold, whether it’s gold, diamonds, agriculture, business enterprises that they buy the used to buy off the military loyalty and keep themselves in power. So the same types of as, ah, in related evasion tactics. That’s what they’re using. Second countries 2nd 3rd countries and front companies, crypto currency, money, laundry. And so the key to putting more pressure on is in the financial room and get after the money flows. And we’re working that space hard. But it’s it’s a complicated space toe work in It’s d o d supported and we’re supporting our colleagues across the interagency and international partners with the increased intelligence sharing. So passing what we know about all the illicit activities, including the sanctions of Asians, are very important and where where we can on where we want to. We we put that out to our diplomats in the in the public space to call out the what Maduro’s doing with the complicity of international actors to mortgage the future of not just Venezuela. But the hemispheres, those that strain is being felt across. And Mr and uh and we see it. We see it with the the what it’s done to the economy’s pre cove it, and it will only accelerate that trends as we move forward. So it’s a It’s a great question. It all points back to this Larger Web is vicious circle and and the key going forward is, is how we can better share intelligence and then how the international community can better leverage that to force and change the behavior. Maduro and the external state actors Thank you, Admiral, a quick reminder to our audience that you can submit questions over the soon Q. And A feature will be taking one or two at the end of the conversation. Definitely for you, baby. Would you like to work in comments on innovation off sanctions by the modular Jim? Sure, Thanks very much, Diego. So I I actually I also want to go back to something that does said which is, he said. You know, we assumed that they were playing soccer, but they were playing a totally different game, and I think, um, this is really relevant when we think about sanctions evasion inside Venezuela because I think, ah, huge part of the resilience. So to speak of Maduro regime is because we assumed that he was trying to run a government right, and you need a certain amount of money in order to run that government is it Turns out he wasn’t trying to run a government. He was simply trying to give largesse to people who would ensure that he would remain in power. So is a fundamental misunderstanding how much money he needs to stay in power because he doesn’t care about providing essential services to the people of Venezuela. We see that most clearly in in corruption cases involving the clap program and other things that were really created in an effort to provide for the people of Venezuela. Um, you know, I do partially wanted quibble with the idea that the sanctions evasion has kind of been successful because I think we’re seeing those sanctions have an enormous impact on his accent. Resource is, but once again, you know he really needs less money when he doesn’t even pretend to spend the money on Is people think there’s a second reason why Maduro has proven resilient in the face that some of the most comprehensive sanctions that the US government has imposed on country. And this is again going back to the core of this discussion that he’s doubling down on earning money through illicit means, where sanctions have much less of an impact because they’re more focused on what would otherwise be legal sources of income. So he’s always been involved in drugs, gold smuggling. But he’s now really dependent on those proceeds on. And and as Doug mentioned, he’s really dependent on criminal and terrorist networks that are his defective partners. And third, just going back to our discussion about about Iran, he’s really doubling down on these alliances with autocratic regimes, whether it’s Cuba, Iran, Russia and others. It’s actually really ironic because, as we all know, Venezuela was really Cuba’s patron when the Cuban economy fell into total disrepair following the collapse of the Soviet Union. Um, and now Venezuela kind of needs a patron and I presumably is looking to Iran to provide that. But it has really limited three candidates for who will provide that support because how illegitimate this regime really is on dso eso a country that was one supporting another country is not really booking for others to boost to boost it up. And I think that’s what reflection is well off the significance of US sanctions, of the significance of the policy that has involved bringing in other actors, whether it’s the region through the Rio Treaty, to impose sanctions on individuals who are close to the Maduro regime in enabling them to continue to repress of the people of Venezuela. So I think our sanctions will continue to be effective in in in their objective of really putting enough pressure on the Maduro regime so that it will come to the table toe, have a genuine and good faith conversation about how we could get a transitional government in place inside Venezuela. Thank you very much with Betty, do less. I want to go back to you. Let’s people their conversation and now center on the role of Europe. Could you please explain to the audience how the regime is using European banking structures to move and hide billions and billions of dollars in assets? Thank you, Diego. I think that first it is important to distinguish the fact that the Europeans air not part of the joint criminal enterprise and not criminalize states in that sense. But if you look at the history of the boulevard and joint criminal enterprise, they’re drawing on multiple decades of experience from the FMLN in El Salvador, running their contraband weapons into and you’ll solve in Nicaragua you’re wrong, which has extensive experience in sanctions busting North Korea in our nick Elastico, the president’s son, spends ah, uh, enormous amount of time over in the last few months. So they have. They have learned over time that Europe is much more tolerant than much less willing to clamp down on financial institutions over things that they do not view is a particular problem and there particular area of influence. So I think the what we’ve seen is particularly flows into Spain, where there’s been a friendly relations between the Spanish government and the Maduro regime than the U is a whole we’ve tracked, and I know that others have looked at this enormous amounts of money that flow into into Portugal because it’s a relatively easy place to get into it. We see in our work on the external networks enormous amount of front companies set up in Luxembourg, in Switzerland in the famous case of the Bank of the Andorra in, uh, in Andorra. So you have a much more tolerant state they’re in. These folks who have dealt with sanctions for years know where the cracks are. They know where the scenes are. So if you if you read the history of the of the building of, ah, North Korea’s atomic, uh, capacity back in the eighties and 70 they use an entirely European network to do that and elements of those networks survived and some of the same players. One of the things that astounds me because I’m old and I’ve been doing this a long time is you see a lot of the same players turning up again against some of the people that were helping the Sandinistas do different things are now handling the money for Daniel Ortega in in Europe. Some of the folks that were setting up the FMLN logistics with 70 smiting on others were running billions of dollars to repair the message through the same structures that they used in the war. They go back to the 19 eighties, so you have this wealth of experience. They’re not inventing anything new. They’re simply exploiting and going down the road. They’ve already know exploring and pushing further and they’re very creative, very innovative and they understand the cracks. But I think that what we underestimate a lot of times is that they some of these with the Cubans, they’ve been doing this for 30 years and so they’re very, very experienced and they know the court players who are willing to run the risks and do certain things for a lot of money and they’re willing to pay that money. So I think Europe has to become a little more aware of the regional threat that the regime poses in the network poses in Latin America, which will also directly impact them on the amount of cocaine this thing shipped them on. The amount of gold, this makeshift them and crashing their mark is the real estate boom and Spain is in part due to gross inflation of prices due to Venezuelan corruption. So there it doesn’t impact them and I think that helping them understand that and getting much more compliance of already existing laws to people who right they may not understand how important it is. I could go a long way. Thank you, Louis. They beautifully petty any thoughts on the potential role of Europe to combat the Maduro regime. Solicit network. Douglas. Just describe for us. Yeah, I think I think Europe is really essential in this. As Doug was mentioned, you know, we have, um, we really have been focused on coordinating with these countries, whether it’s paying, whether it’s Portugal, whether it’s the UK, I think that the recent Bank of England ruling is sort of a testament to the importance of countries recognizing in term President Guido is a matter of policy and practice as well. In that case, really billions of dollars for a state that the Maduro regime was was trying to steal for itself that are not the legitimate property of the Maduro regime. So there is a legal implication of this recognition when we talk about almost 60 countries recognizing why dough there’s a reason why that matters, it’s it’s not purely symbolic. Um, you know, I think when it comes to combating other listed threat networks and Europe’s responsibility, there’s the banking sector. And there’s also, as Doug mentioned, elicit goals. When you look at how the international community combated things like blood diamonds, for example, really required a global, comprehensive approach in order to help identify the best due diligence practices the best ways of combating the supply chain there. Um, you know, unfortunately, gold is very distinct from diamonds. It’s not as easy. It’s almost impossible to identify the original origin of gold. But what I think we can dio, um, is is by building strong relationships with European countries. We can help ensure appropriate due diligence for the global supply chain of gold by monitoring the exports of gold mining or extraction equipment, for example, and material by promoting best practices in the jewelry industry to promote for kind of prevent the types of mining practices that keep the majority human power. And so again, I think this really requires a major priority of the Trump administration now, which is a comprehensive international approach to addressing majority continued usurpation. It’s not something that the United States can do alone. It’s not something up the Venezuelan people can do alone. We really do need our European partners to step up to the plate. Teoh increase the number of sanctions to make sure that they’re protecting assets for the Venezuelan people and to not fall for the tricks that the Maduro regime tries to play. Thank you, actually have a follow up question for you talking about Europe. A swill? No. Two days ago, you said Burrell, the High representative off the European Union for for Heifers, released a statement saying that and I quote conditions are not met at this stage for a transparent, inclusive, free and for electoral processing ministry. How do you see the response from the international community following these enemy illegitimate elections, especially even what is increasingly know about the criminal nature off Maduro off the Melora Jim It’s foreigner ships with irregular armed groups and involvement in activities. So just narco trafficking and illegal gold mining just to name a few. Yeah, I mean, I think the most important thing is is for us as an international community to not fall for the Madura regimes tricks these alleged their fraudulent. You know, that’s clear in Burrell’s statement, but it’s been clear for four months prior to now, um, you know, they’ve declared individuals it legitimate for running for election. They’ve completely ignored the Venezuelan Constitution and appointed a new electoral council outside the boundaries of what’s even legally possible for them. They have taken over the leadership of opposition political parties. They’ve declared opposition political parties as being terrorist groups. There’s full censorship. They have almost no voting machines, and they throw people in prison for indicating dissent. It’s not just that they haven’t met all the conditions. As for L mentioned, they haven’t met any of the international conditions. Um, and I think there’s something else that needs to be said here. You cannot have a partially free election. You, I don’t have an election that’s free or you have an election that’s not free. There’s really no ability to take a look at you know all of the international standards for minimum conditions and say, Well, the Maduro was you met one or two reviews, so it’s a free election. Even if they do meet wanted to, they have to meet all of those conditions because the reason those are the minimum conditions is because that is the absolute floor for what would be considered a free election. And when you have the complete censorship off all of these parties, when you have the people you know, fearing for their lives, for advocating or campaigning. This is why the opposition made the determination on and an issued a statement. I think it was a few days, though, noting that they they are not going to participate in these elections because they’re not elections. And we need to stop calling them that. Um, we, as an international community need to first be very, very clear on and unified that this is not a free election. We also need to do more to support the interim government and the opposition in its fight. They’re not running, but they’re doing something much, much more important, which is they’re putting their lives on the line on a daily basis to confront a dictator. The international community needs to do more. To stand by them needs to pledge transition support, Something that Assistant Secretary Natali mentioned is the importance of security assistance in a transition. The Maduro regime has built up the capacity to, uh to cause chaos, even if there’s a transitional government. So we all is an international community need to pledge to be with the Venezuelans when that moment comes, Um and we also need to make it clear what the consequences will be for the Maduro regime once these elections take place on December 6. So, um you know, I think the first step of making it clear that the minimum conditions haven’t been met. I think barrel statements made that very, very clear. But I also think that we need to remain united and we and we need to ensure that there are actual actions and consequences for this behavior. Because if there aren’t, the Maduro regime will continue with impunity. Thank you. Deputy Assistant Secretary Natalie Talking about civilization. You have extensive experience in post conflict stabilization in Pakistan, Iraq, among other locations. What makes practices does that experience offer for stabilization in Venezuela? What is the U S doing to coordinate with partners to prepare for civilization in a postmodern It’s Well, thanks, Diego. I’ll make this quick. One of the points that we are working on it CSO is to improve the way that the United States government approaches stabilization. And I point to the Global Fragility Act that President Trump signed in December of 2019. This is a very important piece of legislation, and this is the way that the United States is moving forward in the way that we approach fragile states and the way that we’re going to approach the lessons we learned in the past specifically to countries such as Venezuela. And as I mentioned, we are coordinating the interagency planning so that we can look at the stabilization needs in Venezuela as they prepare for a transition. Now we believe that the best pathway Ford is outlined in the democratic transition framework, which calls for again a transitional government to administer free and fair elections. As Deputy, says the secretary, Philip any noted really free elections, not not partially free elections, just to look at one of the one of the ways we approaches in your rock. We will able and I want to focus again and reinforce what my colleagues said about the importance of an international coalition, and this touches upon not just Venezuela but Iran, China, Russia and Cuba. But we were able to bring together over 50 countries in the fight against Isis and this this condition created a funding mechanism which remember we called the UNDP s off funding facility for stabilization. So which the United States and 27 other countries contributed $1.2 billion. That works. This’ll help centralize stabilization, funding and all of our efforts in Iraq. So to date we have more than 4300 stabilization programs in Iraq that air planned under way or completed. So one of the lessons learned in one of the ways that we can look at Venezuela is through this prism. And again, we also have similar objectives to work. We want the Venezuelan people to lead, which is our new approach to Venezuela’s, and they are pushing stabilization. And the final point is about working with our European partners in particular, now again to better coordinate. We work very closely my bureau with our counterparts in eight or seven other countries that have stabilization priorities. Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, the Netherlands in United Kingdom and all of this community group which we call the Stabilization leaders form, is committed to international cooperation. We have linked these stabilization units to the interim government so that they could absolutely coordinate not only security sector assistance but who is doing what so that we can fill the gaps we continue to work with and encourage and enforce burden sharing Aziz. We approach the transition for Venezuela because this is critical, as my my colleagues indicated. So this is the approach, our approach to stabilization, learning from some of the positive and negative lessons from the past. Thanks. Thank you very much. Is Ethan secretary back to you and me and find her South comes and has counternarcotics operations in the Caribbean. Has the support off 22 nations. Why is it increasingly important toe corner with allies to combat narcotrafficking originating from the Maduro regime on irregular armed groups while quarantine security in the hemisphere? I can’t stress enough the urgency of the threat. I think every speaker here today is has pressed that this threat toe democracy, the threat, Teoh economic stability. Add cove it and I think we’ll see. 2nd 3rd were impacts that have be deeply troubled in terms of undermining stability of other nation states. And so the driver of that threat has coalesced. Ah, people don’t work together against it. The 22 nations is one example you cite. I think as we look at this, we look at important investments that we made as a nation. Um, in the past, US Columbia action plan is still moving forward, where Colombians air training partners across Central America to conduct operations against narco trafficking and terrorists. It’s extremely beneficial. We look at the Central America Security initiative, the Caribbean security, an issue, these air important investments, where the United States time and financial races sources will put pay forward for enhanced ability. And that’s part of the solution, said here is making sure we have it right in those state. Those those investigators to keep of the democracies that have made progress in Central America and South America and the Caribbean keep them moving forward against this vicious circle of threats. This network that Doug so aptly characterized. Thank you, Admiral. And thank you, everyone. Now I will turn the mike over to Jason will take questions from the audience. Back to you, Jason. Hey, thank you very much. Thank you very much, Diego. Thank you for the panel. I have 2 to 3 questions put together. First question from Diana. Negroponte asked the panel to be a little more specific on how Colombia could counter the Maduro regime, and I want to tie that to a question from Christina Borelli, who has specifically How does the Pam propose to crack down on the was a traffic of gold from Venezuela through Colombia in other countries, a question on Columbia from Diana and Christina, and then a question from Ambassador Anne Patterson, who asks more specifically about Russian, Russia and Venezuela and mentions that this is potentially a very serious issue to issue for the United States. No, she doesn’t the roster pull back and ask, What is the current extent of Russian presence and influence? Emma fell. I’ll turn to you first for addressing either one or both. Those questions take the Russian because they get straight to the heart of this. What’s the center of gravity? What keeps Maduro in power and and the Russian influences front center in that, whether it’s in cyber, whether it’s in upgrading their defense systems, whether it’s in helping and evade sanctions oil uh, the list goes on. Whether helps whether it’s in the information space spreading disinformation, lies about the extent of their complicity and keep them in their own power, the extent to which Maduro has wrecked the country. And so I watched with alarm what Russia is doing globally in particularly in Venezuela, in terms of the numbers of personnel of the back and forth, the rotations of those personnel special there, special operations force or technicians. And so, uh, if I am completely aligned with Master Paterson on on how we view that, I think in the interest of time, I’ll kick it back to you. Jason, you can look at some of the other Panelists coming. Thank you, Admiral. Secretary Kelly, Thank you so much. I just want addressed the issue on Columbia when I talked about the role of non state armed groups. One of the key players in here is Colombia. Because thes non state armed groups are not just lodged in Venezuela, they’re moving back and forth. PLN and FARC is, you know, coming from Colombia’s well. We were very closely with our Colombian partners in the government. They have been very strong allies in this issue on the dressing, the non state armed groups. One of the ways that we’re doing this in our programs is to enhance the role of the state in some of the rule areas. Whether that is through narco trafficking, whether that’s the security sector for us, it’s implementing the peace accord as well, okay. And getting the role of the state, strengthening that in some of the rural areas to address some of these non state armed groups. So we recognize fully that Colombia is critical, uh, to this effort. Thank you, Justice Debbie, since Hickory Hill. Petty. Sure. So eso to Diana and Christina’s question on Columbia. You know, I think one of the most important things that we’ve been working on when it comes to these elicit foot networks, whether it’s with respect to gold or whether it’s respect Teoh narco trafficking is really ensuring the coordination within the US government. Um, that is sort of first and foremost because we have so many difference experts in different fields within the U. S. System that it’s really important that all of them the sort of cohesive and approaching this and holistic way. So when it comes to gold, we have established an inter agency gold working group. And the purpose of this is to have all of the experts, whether it’s from the regional bureaus, whether it’s from narcotics and law enforcement, whether it’s the law enforcement agencies within DOJ, whether it’s South common and D o d. All of them for knitting together to make sure that we’re identifying the various mechanisms that we can deploy in order to confront the illicit gold trafficking. The other thing that’s critically important is for us to make sure that we are working with our partners on border security issues. This is something that we’ve been working with them on for for a while now, especially in light of also the huge refugee crisis in the region. It’s the largest refugee crisis that the Western Hemisphere has ever experienced, and so making sure that we are really addressing border security is hyper important because what happens is the gold will make its way to Brazil or Colombia and then get exported as if it’s Brazilian or Colombian gold. So preventing it from making it there in the first place is going to be really, really important. So I would say that something major that we can do on the border Teoh try to prevent that. In addition to the sort of broader discussions that we had about, make sure that they’re not able to mind a gold illegally first looks by not having the equipment and to Ambassador Patterson’s question on Russia. Um, you know Russia’s role has changed a bit. Certainly Russia provides probably the largest amount of international support to Venezuela in terms of its role on Security Council on DSO on and so forth. But we have seen the financial relationship decline a little bit. I think. What Ambassador follow mentioned about the disinformation? This is a key tactic that both the Cubans and the Russians used. That’s something we need to be, especially on the lookout for, because that kind of propaganda can be can, unfortunately be quite effective. So we need to always be on our toes to figure out where the sources of information is coming from to make sure that it’s it’s not intentional misinformation from, I think the Russians of the Cubans. Fantastic. Thank you, Doug. I’ll give you were just almost out of time. I give you the opportunity to address that as well. Just two quick points. I think what the assistant secretary Philip any set on gold is incredibly important and we see what we don’t look at. Very well is the really off the radar places like ST On, which is the main exporter now, Venezuelan and far gold Nicaragua their ability to move across traditional uh, has off off our radar screen to get stuff to Mark, I think, is a really key part in creating understanding that blood gold is blood gold. It brings prostitution, child labor, slavery, all environmental degradation, all of those things together. And secondly, just briefly on Russia, I would say that it’s one of the things we have to expand and look at what Russia is doing in Venezuela out of Venezuela. Most of the propaganda and this stuff is happening during the unrest at the end of 2019 by the Russians, came out of Nicaragua. Cuba. Um, that’s where they are operating out of when they can’t be directly in there. So again, they have a much broader network that very strong presence. The Russians in Chile, in Argentina, where they’re running front groups that produce all kinds of Internet content and things that were very little aware of and things that give them platforms. Well, we don’t. When we look at Venezuela only is Venezuela and not his broader network. Thank you. Great. Think thanks to a connection there was there was a question We did get a chance to get to, which was specifically asking about Russia in Nicaragua and Q and A. But I guess we’ll leave that for the next next conversation. I want to end by thanking all of you for joining us today, Admiral. Follower is always fantastic. TCU thank you very much for your time and your service. Uh, assistant secretary? No, totally great to have you. Deputy Assistant Secretary Philip Eddie. Doug Farrah, Thank you all for joining us today, which we could all be together in the same room. But at least being together the virtual room is ah is a step in the right direction and also reminded the days conversation is really an important reminder of the persistently for coordinated action, uh, against the Maduro regime as support for democracy in Venezuela before we end of. That’s the way to invite the audience to read the policy brief, that dog author that we released this morning it on the Atlantic Council website and also share again. This is part of a series of programming on Venezuela and Venezuela’s elicit activity. Specifically, of course, the agent are slight. America Center has had extensive Venezuela programming for the last few years but a new Siri’s now on Venice. Those elicit activities and with our next panel publication will look specifically a to the issue of Iran and Hezbollah. Eso with that again. Thank you. I want to think, uh, Domingo, our star duty and my team who put this whole event together. Diego, thank you for monitoring the panel on Adrian wonderfully. You could join us today with that. I hope everyone has a great rest the day and thank you very much for joining us You