Defense Secretary Dr. Mark T. Esper addresses virtual attendees of the Aspen Security Forum from Washington, August 5, 2020. His topic is “The View from the Pentagon: A Conversation with Secretary of Defense Mark Esper.”
Transcript
To see you. It’s an honor to welcome you to the ASP in the Security Forum. Thanks for spending the time. You’re probably the busiest person on the planet these days on. I just wanted to say and welcoming you. What an honor it is for us. Ladies and gentlemen. Secretary s Bruise. The 27 Secretary of Defense. He’s been secretary of Defense for the past year. It was previously Secretary of the Army. He has a very distinguished record of public service, having served active duty after his graduation from West 0.10 years and then the Reserve and National Guard for 11 years. We’re looking for in a secretary to go to a good conversation. I think you’ve met our moderator before, is a mutual friend of ours. They’ve McCormack, the CEO of Bridgewater Associates. Dave also has a distinguished career in public service as undersecretary of the Treasury as undersecretary of commerce. And Dave and I worked together in the George W. Bush administration when he was in those two roles. And Dave is also a graduate of West Point, I think not the year of Secretary Esper, but there by Westport at the same time So this Secretary Day. Welcome. And, Dave, I’ll turn this over to you. Great. Thanks, Neck and ah, Secretary Esper. Thanks so much for joining us today. It’s great to see you, Nick. Forgot to mention the most important thing that you were born and grew up in western Pennsylvania before going to West Point where you and I both were born. And I know that you carried that with you throughout your your great career. I, uh You know, I thought we were doing the Aspen Security Forum, so I dressed appropriately. So I’m sorry. I’m not I’m not lined up with with you, but we’re glad to have you here. And, you know, I know that you had some some thoughts and prepared to march that you wanted to start with. So why don’t I turn to you? And then once you’ve gone through those, then we can maybe just have a conversation. Sure. Thanks, Dave. And thanks for your kind words. And Nick, thank you for that. Nice introduction. Good to see you again. I’m glad to see that you both are doing well and I look forward to our discussion today. And yes, I would like to say just a few things up front, the kind of set the stage, if you will, to throw out some issues for, for, for discussion if you will. Davis as we go through this over the next hour and I would I begin this way by saying when I was confirmed over a year ago during my confirmation hearing, one of things I made clear is that my top priority would be implementing the national defense strategy and as you both the many of Aspen members know. The national defense strategy says, Look, we’re now in an era of great power competition that our chief competitors are China and Russia in that order. We have a second tier of countries we need to address its countries such as North Korea and Iran. And of course, we have the and unfortunately, the enduring challenge threat of violent extremist organization. So since that time, we have been moving out now for nearly 13 months in terms of implementing the NDS and and A and ES says that we have three lines of effort Effort Number one is to build a lethal ready force. Number two is to continue to strengthen our alliances and build partners and then line of effort. Number three is to is to reform the department to find greater efficiency. And I translate that into creating time, money, manpower, freeing up my time, money and manpower to put into other parties. And what we’ve done over that time is Teoh really flesh out. And I did this early on with my leadership team, really 10 goals that would goddess over the over the successive months. And now and it’s in our rear view mirror if you want many ways what we’ve been doing over the past 12 months, so I’ll list off some of the goals here. Review update and approve all of our China and Russia plans to implement what’s called the immediate response force a contention Response Force and dynamic force employment enhanced reading This three reallocate reassigned to redeploy forces in accordance with the NDS for achieve a higher level of sustainable readiness. Number five. Develop a coordinated plan to strengthen allies and build partners. Number six Reform and managed the fourth estate number seventh focused the department defense on China. Number eight modernized the force by investing in game changing technologies. Number nine established realistic joint war games and exercises in training and then number 10 develop a modern were fighting joint warfighting concept and ultimately doctrine. So we have been moving out along those 10 objectives. We made considerable progress. Argo was it was to was to complete many of them by the end of this year. And we’re on track. One of the challenges we’ve obviously faced over the previous seven months, of course, is the impact of Cove it would hit which hit us in in January. I’ve been tracking this since mid January. As many of you know, the department Ah ah received its first U. S. Citizens from China. In late January, we implemented our global defense plan, I think, on February 1st. So we’ve been at this now for seven months, and I’m really proud of the department defense that I think in our high point over 60,000 service members on the streets of America and many of the hot spots, particularly National Guard, whether was medical professionals helping out in hospitals, distributing supplies, you name it. Very proud of what? What the United States military did, often putting themselves at risk during that challenging time. I outlined three priorities. Number one. Take care of our people and their families, number two and shrewd that we could maintain our readiness to execute a national security missions. And then number three, of course, is support the whole of government effort. And so we continue to carry on into this state. We now have, for example, still have medical professionals deployed in both Texas and California. On top of that, we also had to deal with civil unrest in the wake of the tragic murder of George Floyd, If you will are, service members again did extremely well in serving their state governors, the guard that is allowing making sure that Americans had the chance to to exercise their First Amendment right of freedom of speech and assembly to protest and to do that peaceably. So I’ve been very proud of our garden, that regard in that manner. And then, of course, in a wake of that, I pursued three initiatives to address race, racial discrimination, diversity and inclusion in the ranks, and we could talk about that in some detail. But clearly, while the United States military has been a later when it comes to dealing with discrimination, its ranks and and making sure that it’s not part and parcel of our force. We’re not immune from what’s happening in the broader society, so we’re taking a number of actions. Teoh to do that for two reasons. First of all, it’s the right thing to Dio, but secondly, it’s important to our readiness. We need to be able to recruit, retain the best and brightest and make sure that they all feel respected, regarded and have all the equal opportunities everybody else doesn’t our force. And that applies not just for a persons of color but ethnic, your ethnic differences sex, gender, sexual orientation, you name it. We want to represent the American people that we are. We’ve sworn an oath to swear him for sworn an oath to protect and defend, if you will. So with that, I just want to say thank you for the chance to today to talk about what we’re doing it d o d. And talk about broader issues in the external environment. I just want assure you and everybody else that while America’s focused inward, rightly so on issues of Kobe and what not at the same time we’re doing both were focused inward, helping inward, but the same time maintaining our national security capabilities and defending the country. And we see that as our top priority and are committed to continue to do so here as we move forward. So with that, David, thank you, and I look forward to a good discussion today, Thank you. That covered a lot of waterfront there, and there’s so much we could talk about. But But I thought I might ask you toe elaborate a bit more on really the defining geopolitical challenge of our time, which is obviously the rise of China and how to think about that from a national security perspective. In recent weeks, a number of your colleagues in the administration have made very significant speeches about China’s role in the world and about some of the challenges. And you you’ve talked a lot about reorienting the department towards the strategic competition. And so I wondered if you might elaborate a bit. What do you mean by that? What are the specific things that are underway, and how do you see that challenge of all short out, you know? First of all, I’ve been watching China’s rise now since for many decades. I was, Ah, war planner, if you will. In the mid 19 nineties, while still in uniform here at the Pentagon, my first assignment focused on what was then pay cough. I’ve seen this over time in my various roles, whether it’s a think tanks or on Capitol Hill, I served on the U. S. Commission on Economic and Security Review Commission, if you will. So Shine has been on this set path for some time now on all forms, whether it’s a diplomatic, economic and military. And so I think the NDS rightly recognized that we are now in this era of great power competition. And it’s time that we woke up and addressed it and that that we competed much more vigorously with China. Then what we have been. And so we have taken this whole of government approach with regard to the national defense strategy and by the way, I’ll pause because I don’t know if you all can see me, but I can’t see you now. We may have a technical thing on my side. By double, we’ve undertaken a number of actions. So again, I said I focused a Department of China we had update our plans to be consistent with that. What I’ve done is turned. The National Defense University of Estimate focused 50% of their curriculum on China so that our most senior officers have a good understanding for how China operates politically, economically, militarily, what their decision making processes are, what their values, how the parties organized and what not. I’ve made China the pacing threat for our armed services, much like, uh, David, you and I would recall from our days during the during the Cold War. So we’re now understanding better Chinese order of battle and things like that. I want to make sure it’s taught in our schools, were trying to expand our language programs, but clearly it’s gonna be the challenge of our time. I I don’t I don’t see China right now as a is an inevitable threat that we’re gonna have a fight with them where the case maybe, But we do have to compete, and we have to be much more vigorous in all domains, if you will, whether it’s again diplomatic, informational, military, political. I’ve been speaking out since early days of my tenure here. I gave a major speech at the at the ah Ah annual of think tank event Mukunda in Germany earlier this year and spoke a number of times. So look, it’s a big challenge and we need to face up with it. And I think our hope is that we could get China on the right trajectory where they share our same values, where they at least respect international rules and norms and don’t try and also them where they stopped doing what we’ve seen him do. Too many of our partners around the globe, particularly in the Indo, pay calm weather, twisting arms and using other course of techniques to get their way and trying to play the regional hegemonic. So it is a particular challenge We need to continue to outreach to them. But we also need to recognize that we’re in a new era and you have spoken a lot about this and I know one of your your priorities was a very ambitious defence reform agenda which you’ve laid out and of course is a former defence planner. You know that the challenges toe allocate resource is so you’re able to deal with the challenges immediately in front of you at the same time investing future set of capabilities that would be more aligned with dealing with some of the the the asymmetric threats that are evolving in China and Russia elsewhere. Talk a little bit about that effort, and I don’t know where I read it, but I also read about some of your, uh, your efforts on the resource is to make sure you were cutting out the fat, uh, with your guess, late night sessions in your office, where you went line by line. So so talk big picture and then go granular, if you will, about how you’ve tried to make that reform effort a reality. Sure, you know, it’s it’s so much about making choices and prioritization, and I know you know that others know that from there from their careers also. And look, first of all, we have ah, very generous defense budget from the American people. I still believe we need to maintain 3 to 5% annual real growth to keep it that way to make sure that we’re as ready as we need to be to face not just today’s threats but future threats. And that is the trade office. It’s It’s it’s the present versus the future. It is, Ah, it’s what do you need to fight today’s fights? Because we we serves. We have serious challenges. If you look in the Mideast with with regard to Iran, other places around the globe, North Korea clearly is a challenge for us, but the same time I have to be thinking about the future. That’s my role in so many ways. And so it’s making those trade offs on a day in day out basis. Um, the first week I came into this job over a year ago, we institute a defense wide review where we went through what we call the fourth estate, all the 29 plus defense agencies that make up the backbone, if you will, the military and and found $5.7 billion. And I could put into, uh, these national defense priorities because, yes, we want to always go after fat. Sometimes you have to go after a little muscle, too, and, ah, after the Defense Wide review, we began a series of combatant command reviews when we got about six underway. Right now again, to re prioritize our resource is whether its troops or money or resource is, or or simply time to focus on the challenges of Indo pay Comin to me, that’s the fundamental thing when you talk about implementing the NDS is how do I make sure that I have sufficient resource is capability in that theater to compete with China, first of all, and secondly, deter any type of conflict. And third, if those two things fell, I got to be prepared to fight and win. And that means again making hard choices, pulling things from other theatres, if you will. And and the China competition, by the way, is not limited into opaque. Um, it’s a global competition, so we see them in all all parts of the world. So it’s its multifaceted and requires tough decisions. And look, we’re making those tough decisions as best we can. I can’t hear you death. Part of that that you’ve talked about is is innovation, and I wanted that may be asked to go a bit deeper on that. I think if you walk the basement of O. M. B or down the Net Assess, but you probably see some dust on former transformation reform efforts, some of which haven’t come to fruition in the ways that the the originators had hoped. What makes this one? What makes this different in your mind and what are the impediments? The you see, is the secretary to innovation within the Department of Defense and within the services. It’s a great question. I mean, we’re clearly at a pivotal moment and an inflection point, if you will. I will tell you from my days as secretary of the Army, and you would recall this as well. We were still living off the Reagan buildup of the eighties, the Big Five weapons systems of of the Apache in the Abrams and, uh, on the Patriot. We’re all the same systems were using upgraded, of course, but still using. So I think we just reached a point where it was time to make that change. And across all services. You now see everybody doing this, whether it’s the Air Force with a new stealth bomber, obviously three services with the F 35 the Army is moving out in new directions as well to upgrade. But if you step back, the underlying technologies are very clear, and we’re putting a lot of dollars into this and We have these 11 modernization priorities to get us there, and it includes stuff like AI, which I think will be a game changer in terms of our ability to maintain overmatch in the future. It’s a I, coupled with robotics and machine learning to do those things. Directed energy, hyper Sonics. Ah, quantum physics biotechnologies thes 11 areas where we think are game changers in the future that we gotta put big dollars into and we are committing to. And when I talk in your previous question about reform, it’s doing those types of reforms. It’s it’s ending legacy programs. It’s Kerr telling activities that have a low r a y in order to free up that money to put it into those modernization, uh, either capabilities their technologies if we are going to continue to dominate the future and win the future, and when in the sense of just preserving the international global order the way it is consistent with our values, so that everybody can live in security and prosper much of wheat, much as we’ve done the last 70 so years, one of the things that is related to that that you and I have talked about I recall a couple times over the years long before you in this role was culture and the culture of the military services. And And when you think about the pace of change, if you believe that theory that these emerging technologies and the pace of change is accelerating, the question comes to mind about culture and whether the culture of our services is appropriately risk taking appropriately entrepreneurial to be able to adapt. And I know you’ve spoken a bit about the risk averse culture or the fear of it. I guess that you, uh, that you’ve seen how do you see that playing out and how do you, uh, imagine we might evolve it if it is? If it is a real issue, Yeah. I mean, this guy gets to the second question Second part of your last question that I didn’t answer, as I’ll address it. Now culture is culture is dominant, right? It’s It’s what drives so much of of our behavior in so many ways. And you asked before what is what are the obstacles to, ah to modernize the force to success? And I will tell you in that regard it’s the culture of D o D. Which first balls were heavily bureaucratic, and it is very risk averse. So you have people protecting their programs, protecting their activities, protecting their staff, and on top, that is the risk aversion of taking risks that that should be taken. So I think on one, the big hurdle is is again the bureaucracy, the culture. Sure, we have. Ah, there their legislative obstacles were put in place. There’s things we have to do. Ah ah, based on federal policy. But all those aren’t the big issues, the big issues air all internal to us and our willingness and ability to overcome bureaucracy. And that’s something we could talk in great detail about when you get down to the services. They each have unique cultures. Uh, usually, it’s really good that there’s a diversity of culture in there. Ah, and I will tell you when it comes to war fighting, I don’t see a risk aversion. I see a very very cultures in each of the services, whether we want to take, take and manage risk where they understand the mission and are willing to act boldly to accomplish it. And some very encouraged from a war fighting perspective that we’re building the right type of leaders and that we’re giving them sufficient guidance and coaching an opportunity grow and learn. It’s it’s everything behind them, the bureaucracy. It’s D o d. Writ large, the big agencies where we really need to break, develop a different culture and that that means giving people room to fell. And that means that, you know, if people fell understanding why and in taking appropriate action, it doesn’t mean that everybody moves with their job because they took an appropriate risk. And so part of that is changing the leadership culture as well. And how do how do incentives, promotions, promotion boards fit into that? It is you and I remember from our days in uniform there was a very clear path to being promoted, and that was ultimate. What directed the choices that individuals made? How do you see that playing into your decision making process again? There’s, ah, you know, two different type of systems. You see, of course, you get the surveillance system on one hand and the military the other one, and certainly with the military, it’s still fairly structured, if you will, in terms of a career path. But I think what we need to do, and I see the service is taking this on in different ways. I’ll speak to the Army because we were developing it then, and I know Secretary McCarthy in and chief of staff of the Army Macondo continue to develop it. But you have to take the approach where it’s less structured and less rigidity in there, and it’s based. And it’s not an industrial age management policy practice, but a 21st century talent management process where you give up the people the room if you go to pursue their interests, their ambitions based on their attributes, their skills or behaviors, as long as it’s consistent with army needs and requirements and you don’t penalize them for going off track a little bit. What you tend to find is that the longer you, the more breath people have in their experiences that they end up being having far greater value for you in the long run, particularly when you get the positions of senior leadership. If you allow them that room toe kind of maneuver outside of a traditional career path and do things like go to advance civil schooling or to take an assignment in in another department or in another service. And that’s why I think joint assignments are so great. We need to continue to encourage that type of broadening, if you will. Once a Simon history, thank you. I want to just shift topics if I if I might, to diversity and inclusion, which is obviously, and on the national consciousness at the moment in a very profound way, but also something that you’ve really made a priority. And I was struck by some videos they that came out earlier this spring of some senior enlisted leaders and senior officers talking about their experience experiences with prejudice in the military. And you know, you start your comments by saying the military has been one of the great institutions for integration in our country but also has room for improvement. I wondered if you might give us your assessment of the state of of the military today in terms of race and and then also how you’re dealing with whatever gaps there are in the kind of institution we want. Yeah, it’s a great question. It’s It is a profound issue. A set up front I think the murder of George Floyd was a was a wake up call it It brought people Americans out onto the streets to protest this. This discrimination Ah, that many of our fellow Americans African Americans experience. And it was a wake up call for us as well as leaders. We know we’re not immune to what is happening in broader society, that society that we serve and look. It’s clear because we bring young men and women into the service all the time, from all walks of life, all corners of the country, uh, urban, suburban, rural, black, white Um, you know, Asian American, you name it all, all all types. And I don’t think what What everybody appreciate at least me personally is the depth of sentiment out there among our service members of color, particularly black America. Americans, about how much the killing of George Floyd and the other incidents that preceded it, and succeeded it had on them and what they were experienced in experiencing in the ranks as well. And I’ll tell you, within a week or two of that, I started going on the road. Ah t check out training. I did it is part of Cove it to see how our recruiting and training base in particular was holding up under the stresses of Cove it and eventually turned in listening sessions as well. So I’ve done 89 10 if you will across the United States and abroad, listening to service members, various, the various diverse groups and you get a true sense of what they’ve experienced anecdotes, story after story. And, um, and the good news. Or maybe the bad news is it’s all consistent everywhere I go, regardless of service, regards the location, same type of stories, same type of experiences. So look, we took ourselves. We took it upon ourselves as a leadership team that we had to do better. We must do better. Deal D had a had a history of leading on these issues, and it was time for us to step up again to really capture this moment. So I laid out three initiatives. A number one was to come up with what I call quick action items that we could do now to really make a difference and to get things moving. And I signed that on Ah, I think July 14th July 15th was Initiative number two, or we stood up a defense board for diversity inclusion. Led by the secretary of the Air Force, Secretary Barrett. She was joined by the senior listed advisor to the chairman, Cologne Lopez. Very diverse team and diverse, not church, not just in terms of having persons of color and different ethnicity, But we also want to get the person’s different in ranks. We get young officers, mid grade officers younger, enlisted mid grade enlisted because we knew they would own the future. They really had to kind of help us lead us on this. And we wanted to be part of that. That that, that she’s doing a six month sprint, if you will, to bring me back recommendations in December. The third piece, the longer piece is the Defense Advisory Committee on Diversity and Exclusion in the Armed Services, mirrored on the very successful Dacca wits, which took up the same charge when it came to women in the military. And we’ll be standing that up probably ended November, if you will, but that’ll be the long term enduring independent, if you will body that will look over time and really help us see ourselves better and help us make progress on issues of diversity, inclusion and equal opportunity in the force. It’s again, it’s critical because first of all, it’s the right thing to do. But secondly, it’s important to readiness if we’re gonna deploy an employer ready capable force. We have to have Americans of, of all walks of, of all colors, ethnicities, etcetera, filling part of the team and part of the team. You made the point that, if anything, cove it has heightened our awareness of some of the challenges around diversity and inclusion. I also wondered, How is it a perfected through your eyes the readiness of the force? What are the strains and stresses that that it’s created what changes in operational tempo, training and so forth? And And how do you see that playing out over time? Yeah, so you know, clearly when it it hit early on, we could see it kind of coming. This is back to January, if you will, and it took some time to see the full effect by by April. If you will quite concerned about our personnel on how they would hold up, and you obviously, as you know, you can’t afford a lose, ah, part of your force and perform your mission. So we were very careful in terms of issuing. At this point, I think 13 guidance letters on how to protect the force, how to protect one another, giving broad guidance to commanders and their staffs, their medical staffs about how to do that. So we made that the job number one, if you will, and it’s helped pretty well. Our rates of infection or lower than the population we serve. Every death is a tragedy and, you know, particularly the military. And, ah, thank goodness we, However, we’ve only lost one person, one active duty member to Covitz. So I think with the measures we took in place held Oppa’s well. As a result, um, the force has been able to perform its national security missions outside inside the country, but outside the country as well. We’ve tiered are forced to do that. The areas where I became most concerned were twofold. One was the recruit can be recruit and can we bring young recruits in in this covert environment? And we made some adjustments to do that. We can talk about that if you will But I think the services toe slightly different approaches but generally the same and were able to manage that pretty well. And I think we’re going to hit our instruments this year. For the most part, the Marines may fall a little bit short, but that’s been management, because if you don’t otherwise you could create Ah, hole in the system that will take years to work its way through the other one, which is a little more challenging, is a defense industrial base. And why do I say that? Because unlike the military, where we have a young, fit health pop healthy population that can withstand cove it better than most, the defense industrial base is an older, less fit, if you will, population that that I’m more concerned about. And obviously it’s your most important resource is your your persons, your people, their ability to fight and win. But they need that hardware, that technology, those instruments of war, if you will, to do their jobs. And that’s where I have been concerned to remain concerned. Ah, lot of credit to the team here that handle acquisition and sustainment Under Secretary Lord has done great things toe to to keep the defense industrial base base afloat to help him with progress payments, cash payments, everything we can do to keep those industries healthy. Particularly as you know, when you get into those third and fourth tier suppliers, they can’t afford to take a month off. They can’t afford to lose a contract without going completely out of business. So that that that was and remains. My principal concern right now is I look at the impacts of Cove it that said, I will tell you there are There are silver linings in the Kobe proud that we found as well when we could talk about that. If you want. Yeah, that’s it. And please. What? What What are the silver linings? Well, so you know, when I went to Parris Island to see the Marines and how they were adapting to Kobe, they, for example, took in a practice where they they brought a man, and for two weeks, they would socially distance them in a separate barracks, separate area, if you will. And that was very successful in terms of limiting the spread of cove it. But what we eventually found to was not only didn’t reduce the cove in cases considerably dramatically. We also saw fewer cases of other types of respiratory illnesses and other you know, other things that afflict young people when they all come together. So at the end of day, we saw higher rates, if you will, of of young recruits showing up for duty on a daily basis. Another example was instead of giving young recruits ah, week plus breaks in between basic training and extended training, if you will buy only limiting, limiting them to maybe a long weekend. Three days we found that they came. They came prepared for that second traunch of training again, more fit because they didn’t take a week off. They weren’t getting in trouble at home. Uh, they were more ready for the training. So we’re seeing benefits in different ways, and I could talk to each of the services and and show you how we found silver linings and each of these things, even the Marines, the army said. You know they again, a different type of training where they allowed the other recruits for the 1st 14 days while they were restricted movement. Thio Thio do a little bit more bonding if you will under under far less duress. And they would normally have on day Day one. And what they found is result. I give them 14 days to bond and get to know one another once they hit that traditional day. One. High stress, high duress drill sergeants in your face type of situation. We’re seeing lower rates of attrition because they know one another. They can lean on one another. They bonded already, and it’s having a much improved impact on our ability to get larger numbers of folks through the pipeline. I see. That’s interesting. Uh, you know, one of the things you mentioned earlier in your remarks that sort of related to Kobe is you know, there’s a There’s a math problem that we, as a country are facing. And if you think of our economic might really underwriting our national security, you know we, as a result of covert, have significantly increased our deficits. Are debt a za percent of GDP? And so there’s even under the most optimistic scenarios. There’s a much difference fiscal outlook, and it’s not clear that we’re at all done spending yet a much more difficult fiscal outlook than there was three months ago were January 1st. And so how do you think about that? A zit is sort of a national leader with that, your point about the 3 to 5%. And there’s sort of the reality of our moment. And And how? How would you advise policymakers, members of Congress and so forth that think about those trade offs? Look, I give the president and Congress a lot of credit for coming up with these trillion dollar plus spending packages. The 1st 1 was, what, $3 trillion plus? And we’ll see what the next one will be to help Americans to help the economy stay afloat, to do all those things we need to do. We were also all cognizant of the fact I am a swell that Aziz you noted. It adds to the debt, the deficit, which which inevitably puts more pressure. Um uh, on the federal government on on D o. D. In particular, in terms of downward pressure on our budget, I said upfront that in order to kind of sustained the great progress we made over the last three years, you know President Trump, year after year, we’ve seen increases in our budgets, which has resulted increases in readiness and increases in our investment accounts and all these things. But, um, to continue to expect those that type of ah generosity from the American tax payer payer when we see ah discretionary spending rise, mandatory spending arise means we have to be much more aware of what’s happening in their over time as well. We’re talking about this Just yesterday when we talked about how do you grow the force? How do you grow the fleet conscious of, Ah, the cost it will put on the system? So that’s why I continue to beat the drum, that we have to be much more cost aware, cost efficient. We’ve got to make those hard choices. We’ve got to get rid of legacy systems. You know, so many programs are important, but frankly, they’re all Some are more important than others. And if it’s not delivering a high our lives, we say you’re just gonna have to get rid of it because, um, it’s hard to sustain that level of spending. We just need to be a real realistic. I will continue to go out there and fight for it. I think it’s important but the same time, the one thing I can control is how we spend our dollars, and I’m gonna continue Emphasize that with the services and with the combatant commanders. Great. Thank you. I’m gonna I’m gonna pivot again to a new set of questions for those in the audience. And what did you do and encourage you to put questions in the Q and A section, and we’ll try to draw those questions into the conversation. Um, Mr Secretary, we might turn to allies alliances on partners, which I know is ah, is been a very significant. I think your travel schedule is indicative of the priority you place on that on, and they’re key to our national security. I hope you might give us some context and background on the repositioning troops in Germany. Uh, what is the What’s the thinking on the reaction with the NATO? And how do how does that advance the national defense strategy that you describe? Yeah. Look, allies and partners are critical. It’s it’s It’s the asymmetric advantage we have over both Russia and China. Hands down our allies and our partners. So it it’s something inconsistent with our national defense strategy. line of effort Number two that we’ve got to continue to strengthen the allies and grow new partners. So you’re right. I’ve spent a lot of time on the road traveling particularly to the Indo pay Con theater. Well, over 200 or so meetings with with foreign partners, you know, just in the past week alone, off talking. I’ve spoken to my partners from Indonesia to Brunei. Australia. Uh, you name it that the the UK, the NATO Secretary General, etcetera, got to continue to build those and strengthen them. We do it through and not just diplomacy, but through arm sells through training and extra exercises. All those things that make us a very capable strategic force. So very important. We must do that. Um, in all those cases, we have to look for ways, on the other hand, to I said earlier, multiple times free up time and resource is toe to apply into our priority theater. So I have these cocom reviews underway. Six. Right now, presently, one of those that we began some time ago was three European Command one. And so I’d given General Walter some instructions. If you will kind of how do you look at your command, how do we re position? How do How do you give me a secretary defense, More strategic flexibility and yourself more operational flexibility as an example. Then, in June, the president issued his directive that accelerated that with regard to pulling forces out of Germany. So we went at the task, General Walters in particular. I said, Look, I want you to We got to meet the president’s objective. I want you to follow these five principles Number one. Enhance our returns to Russia. Number to reassure allies number partners number three. Strengthen the Alliance on number four. Give me greater strategic flexibility and your own operational flexibility and number five take care of our service members and their families. And in the process, I think they did a really good job. The number they came back, what with was to pull 11,900 out of Germany. That would leave nearly over 24,000 troops still in Germany, still the largest country hosting US forces. But what we what we did in the process when what will be underway is a way by which we made the alliance more capable and just speak to it in strategic terms with regard to Russia. What what will end up doing is actually move moving forces further east. In other words, falling the trail of our newest members of the alliance. So we see putting more rotational forces into ah into the Black Sea region, Romania in particular. And then I my aspirations else to put more more forces up into the northeastern flank as well. Both the Baltics in Poland. And if you saw in the past week, we announced the deal was made with Poland, where we’d have 1000 troops there. Ah, four deployed fifth Corps headquarters as well. But some of the things that he came up with were where things that have been talked about for many years. For example, I think nobody can deny the fact that by by aligning his headquarters, uh, co locating it with his shape headquarters in Belgium is an efficiency that allowed greater interoperability between our staffs, reuniting units that have been separated for years. So, for example, moving the elements of the 1 73rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team from Germany down to Italy with her with her with her host units, makes obvious sense. Same thing with combining other headquarters as well. Now one of things were doing of those 11,900 Uh, 6000 or so We’ll come back to United States, principally Striker the striker units. But what that does is it gives me great strategic flexibility. Our ambition is to bring him back, but put put them another strike units back on the road. So where is in the past, we may have had four deployed at any one time training one battalion. In the future, we’ll have an enduring presence of a brigade. And by the way, as I said, T General Walters, if you don’t want strikers, if you think you need a armor Brigade combat team, we could do that to whatever it takes to meet those five principles. And we could talk about, you know, the Air Force rejoining Air Force squadrons. I think one of things that’s Ah has been talked about for years. When I first came on board was keeping the ah, the airman we have ah refueling Squadron and a special ops squadron or wing at building all England. Keeping them there in England made obvious strategic sense in the wake of the nds eso. We’re keeping 2500 airmen there, so I think when you go through it, you’ll see that makes these moves make ah lot of sense. When you put in the context of those five principles, I may not, um, I know it’s a long answer, but I will say this much. I think the feedback I’ve gotten from my team that I have personally heard from allies or that have been reported on from allies has generally been positive for most of them. And, ah, you know, Germany. To their credit, I spoke to my counterpart a week and 1/2 ago, now obviously disappointed with regard to Teoh losing forces, but recognized the important thing was strengthening alliance and doing those other things. And so, uh, again, I think at the end of day is we and we’ll make adjustments over time is this? We want to move as quickly as possible, but we got to be delivered in it that you’ll see these things pan out. Justus Justus. I laid him out to you when I think it’s just as you’ve suggested. I think it’s important to note also. Historically, there’s been a number of ebbs and flows over the years, as is people in your position. And military leaders have looked at the right force posture, including in the current administration where there was significant reductions in forces in Germany. So this is continues that to some degree, okay, The other thing it deserves mentioning. I think you may have addressed it is this issue about the, you know, allies paying their fair share. And I’ve gone back either reading my predecessors book. I spoke books. I’ve spoken to many of them, you know, the Obama administration, to their credits, had the wells form. It was in Wells where everybody agreed to meet this 2% target. So this has been an historical issue for the United States getting the European partners to pay to pay more to pay their fair share. We said the fair shares 2%. Frankly, I think it could be should be more than that, depending on how wealthy a country is. And I’ve come to a point where I’ve kind of put that standard out there for all of our partners, whether it’s in Asia or elsewhere is if we’re all gonna if we’re all gonna work together If we’re all gonna commit to collective security in order to protect the international rules and norms in orderto ah, and in order to push back against countries that want to infringe upon individual rights or another country’s sovereignty, then we all gotta work together. We gotta contribute together. And we gotta understand what that what that means. And that means we all have a certain minimum level of commitment to get there to deter bad behavior. And if we can’t deterrent, we all got to be ready to fight and win. Can you? Can you spend a minute on Asia? And the same question in that and the importance of the quad? The Prime minister of Australia was on yesterday. Obviously, Australia’s taken a very different defense posture in recent months and years based on the rise of China. How do you see our alliances in in that part of the world and comment on the quad in particular? Yeah, it’s a great question. It gets back to your the 1st 1 you asked about China. So I think what we’ve seen in with the garden what’s happened in the last seven months. Ah, coming as part of covert, if you will, We’ve seen China become more aggressive. Ah, trying to use the the the, uh the tragedy, if you will, of cove it to their advantage for propaganda purposes. And I think they really overplayed their hand. And we’ve seen them continue to try to exercise this muscle in the South China Sea. You know, they sank a think a Vietnamese fishing vessel a few months ago. They continue to twist the arms of others. They deployed troops along the line of actual control in India. So again, we see them acting out in a way that is inconsistent with, you know, international norms, rules of behavior, if you will. And many of our allies and partners are reacting as well. I give great credit to the Australians and in particular, the Brits as well, whether it’s pushing wall way out of their systems or the Australians with a brand new defense strategy that has a long term commitment. The funding, you know, Secretary Pompeii and I just did a two plus two with with them or we talked about these issues, but what you see and Oh, by the way, another silver lining of Cove. It is because we haven’t been able to travel as much were doing much more online, much like you and I and all of the Aspen members were doing today. So we’ve been doing five I partners civets meetings. We’ve been doing trilateral meetings, if you will, and so what I hope and what many of us my Australian counterparts, Japanese counterparts, I think have agreed to is we need to do more of those and we need to multilateralism. So as you know, so many of the relationships, unlike Europe in Asia, our bilateral, you know US, Korea, US, Philippines, US, Australia. We need the multilateral eyes, those maybe not officially right. But But in terms of knitting things up, so we talk more is a group that’s the best way to push back against China. It’s bad behavior in Pacific and I see that as another positive outcome of you will if you of us being unable to travel. We found new ways to communicate and to do it in a multilateral way. And I think we need to continue advance that, Yeah, I could. I couldn’t agree more. I want to draw a question from our our audience. This is Ah, from Drew Dorn Stander. It’s about alliances. He’s a West Point grad. He put beat Navy in his question. So he came to the top of the queue, and it’s it’s related to what we just talked about. Which armors. Army Futures Command has many ambitious modernizations programs, such as the future vertical lift and long range precision fires. To what extent should we be engaging our international partners to strengthen their capabilities and enable them to keep pace with our own? Yeah, early and often, I mean, one of things we did. This part of the NDS strategy is my policy team has done a superb job. We have the first ever global outreach, if you will, when it comes to allies and partners. So we’re doing stuff like expanding. I met by 50% over the next five years. I met to me is you can’t beat the return on investment. It’s international military education and training. But we’re also looking at how we advanced arms sells on weapons sales. So we build interoperability. We build relationships. That’s one of multiple facets of this new strategy. So, yes, we should be reaching out now at the partners, whether it’s ah, advanced aviation. You know, the Army, I recall from my time not too long ago, they were trying to restore mogul short range air defenses, but not just missiles now on mobile platforms but directed energy. Um, uh, we’re trying to, you know, get longer range artillery and what they’re doing right now in places like, um, Arizona, what they’re testing is just remarkable. It will give us the range and precision we never had. So all those things we should be working closely with allies and partners, and I know we are on. And so it’s important to sustain that and not just obviously for the Army, but for all the services. And that’s just again, that’s away. Why? How we to further develop this asymmetrical advantage we have over the Russians and the Chinese when it comes to allies and partners? Great had, like a draw. Another question from our audience. This is from Ambassador Sanders, and it’s a question regarding Russia may be asking you to elaborate a bit on on how you see the strategic competition with Russian, the potential threat. I know part of the reposition you described with the move with the troops of Germany was designed around that and then Onda. Second part of that question, if you could comment on Africa Command in particular some of the terrorist activity in Africa, some of which is apparently supported by the Russians. So if you could comment on both things, I appreciate it. Yes, on the 1st 1 you know, obviously, under Putin, Russia has taken on a much more aggressive posture out in a role where you obviously have seen a move into the Middle East. Syria in particular. You know, they’re playing multiple hands in various parts. The rule. We see him in Libya. Obviously they’re in Africa to so and we know well their invasion of Georgia annexation of Crimea there, occupying part of Ukraine. You know, there’s there stirring trouble up in the Baltic. So look, it’s it’s focused the attention of NATO. Um, it’s unfortunate we’re in this situation, but we have to stand up and and deter them. We have to stand up to them. And that means committing funding, committing troops, committing more capabilities to deterring Russian bad behavior. Um, s O, that so that there isn’t conflict in Europe so we can continue to defend those democracies that we count is our allies. And that’s my commitment. You know, I served as young officer in Italy as part of NATO, actually is part of the NATO rapid reaction for so I know the value of the alliance and I know the value is greater than the sum of the parts when you work together. So Russia has given us that focus and we need to continue t kind of to address them wherever we see them out there playing which, uh, eso one of those areas is Africa. Of course you mentioned at Africom. I think, you know, I just got off the phone a short while, go with general towns and the head of Africom. He’s doing a great job down there, you know, as part of reforms. What I’ve asked him to look at is yes. We need to focus on the counter ve o threat in Africa. And there are groups in both principally West Africa, East Africa. But we have to be able to distinguish between threats that are local or regional nature, nature and those that threaten the homeland and our strategic interests So Aziz. We look through our reform options there and we’ve made a number of changes already. He’s focused on that and what I put the at the top of his list is focused on great power competition in Africa, where we need to be in order to to address what China and Russia may be doing whatever footholds air, trying to gain whatever governments they’re trying to influence. And so it’s part of that process. Early on. What I said is Look, I’m going to deploy parts of AH Security Force Assistance Brigade. It’s a It’s a new organization in the Army which is geared to doing that type of assistance for, ah, for other countries militaries and so he’s moving out on that front. Part of the discussion we had a short while ago is other places where way we may address again great power competition. But I’ve tried to give him a prioritization list and he’s working through that And as we continue to review his combat command, I think we’ll continue make good progress when it comes to to moving forward on the national defense strategy. We’ve had a number of people raised a question about I don’t know if you’re able to speak about what happened in Beirut. Are you able toe share anything on that? Or is that something where you’re still still getting information? Yes. Time getting information on what happened. I, you know, most believe it. It’s it was an accident. As reported Ah, and beyond that, I have nothing further report on that. It’s It’s obviously a tragedy, you know, we mourn for the dozens, if not hundreds of Lebanese possibly killed and up in thousands hurt. And it’s just a Lebanon struggling right now. Ah, in a number of ways and it’s just it’s a shame to see it happen. It’s when you see the video. It’s just devastating. And you you wonder if it’s really, really bad. It could have been much worse, but we want to help. I spoke to Secretary Pompeo this morning. We’re reaching out to the Lebanese government. Have reached out. We’re position ourselves toe, provide them whatever assistance we can. Humanitarian aid, medical supplies, you name it the assist the people of Lebanon. It’s just it’s again. It’s the right thing to do its humanitarian thing to do. In the wake of this tragedy, on just prior to your session, we had a Brian Hook, uh, interviewed. And so there was a lot of talk about Iran and the Iran deal and so forth. Our action, the Iran deal. Rather. But I wondered if you just could talk about through through the eyes of d o d on and how how you think about that threat and think about D o D strategy in the national defense strategy in terms of being prepared to respond. Sure, No, look, we first of all, we absolutely support the maximum pressure campaign. You know, Iran has been a bad actor net region since the revolution in 79 spreading malign activities, you know, all the way from Africa across today into Afghanistan, The other stands stirring up problems, uh, you know, controlling influence and governments. And it’s been it’s been really bad. So you have that aspect of it you have hostage taking happening for many years. We know their pursuit of long range weapons, missiles and of course, you know, to top it off their pursuit of a nuclear weapon, which we absolutely cannot allow, So did these postures is again continue to strengthen our allies in the region, whether it’s Israel or partners such as the site, Saudi Arabia and other countries in the Arabian Peninsula. Reassure them. Make sure we can deter Iranian bad behavior wherever it happens, whether it’s on the land in places ah, again across the Arabian Peninsula or even into into Africa, certainly deter bad behavior in the Maritimes. Fear we saw last summer where they were, you know, stopping ships, ah, sabotaging ships, doing things that would disrupt commerce and freedom of navigation. And that’s one of the key principles that the United States tries to enforce out there. Uphold its freedom of navigation, freedom of commerce, whether it’s the Persian Gulf, the Strait of Hormuz or the South China Sea, where we do freedom, navigation up. So So there’s that piece of it. And then you have Iraq, where we’ve been for many years now, trying to help Iraq get up on its feet, stamp on its feet and very in a very challenging neighborhood. You know, we have full respect for their sovereignty, where there, as as guests of the government, to help them ensure the enduring defeat of Isis. But the same time we don’t want to see them captured by Iran and and we want to see a sovereign Iraq idea that could stand up for itself. So we’re balancing a number of things were supporting the policies set forth established by the president implemented by the State Department. We stand there to support our negotiators and maintain the peace and really deter Iranian bad behavior. And again, if it fails, we’re prepared to act as we had as we did in December and January. Thank you. I’m gonna I’m gonna give you a final question here which which draws Ah, a bit on what? Some of the audience upset. But also just something that I’m interested in, which is it’s really two parts one. You know, I have some sense of what it’s like from you through your eyes in term’s of your, you know, going to West Point and then serving as a combat officer and now having the great privilege of leading the men and women in our armed services. So I wanted wondered if you could reflect on the last year as defense secretary and just give us whatever thought you have on that and and also related to that you know you’ve traveled around the world. You’ve met the men and women in uniform. We talked about this right when you took the army secretary job and the thing that comes out just as it did today. But it always when I talk to you is just this admiration, love, respect, feeling of absolute commitment, Teoh the men and women in the armed forces. And I know sometimes when we talk about weapons systems and billions of this and, you know, nds is that sometimes it’s easy to forget those young faces and all that they’re doing for our country. So just ruminate, if you will, on both of those points. Azzawi close out. Yeah. You know, in the 1st 1 I’d say you come into these roles and you know, they’re not gonna be. You want them to be predictable, right? You want to be able to implement your agenda and a ZAY said many times my agenda was implementing the national defense strategy and the policies of the administration. And you want that. But you know, it’s gonna be upset by reality by what happens in the world. And so it’s not unexpected to see threats happening toe have to deal with in Iran or, you know, counterterrorism operations, things like that. But look, nobody year ago would have predicted we’d be facing a global pandemic that has shut down. Ah, the economies of the role that is, that has done so much damage. And, of course, the human toll, which is terrible. Eso So that and then, you know, we faced for a period of time, civil unrest. So you never know what what’s gonna with rolled what? What fate will throw it? You. I’ve just been plus the blessed to have a really good leadership team, you know, beginning with the deputy secretary defense and the chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff who have worked together with both previously great in terms of civilian secretaries and service cheese and a combatant commander. So we have a really good team that was flexible, adaptable. One of things that I did when I came in was to break down the silos that we had at the time where the service secretaries would meet. In one meeting, you’d have a different meeting with the tank and the and the term and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. You’d have another meeting with just OSD staff, and we immediately went to a format where we all sit together twice a day on a Monday, the morning deals with, you know, quarterly updates on things such as modernization or are people or readiness and things like that. And then the afternoon session with all those players bust that, plus the combatant commanders. We talk about strategy and how the implement the NDS and how to deal with Russia and China. And so we’ve really flat in the organization that really enabled us to deal with Cove it and things like that I think much more effectively. So look, you never know what the world’s gonna throw you. Who knows what’s gonna happen tomorrow, but that we’ve had a good team and I think we felt up pretty well, given all that’s happened with regard to your second question, I mean, you’re spot on. There’s nothing that I enjoy more than going out on the road and spending time with our soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines. I mean, they they inspire you each and every day, their stories, where they came from, why they joined what keeps him motivated, what their aspirations are. You know, learning about their families about their careers. As I so often tell them, particularly when I do, uh, swearing in ceremonies for brand new folks joining the military. I just say they’re just so such great Americans. They’re willing Teoh raise the right hand and swear an oath to the Constitution and give their life sacrificed themselves for their fellow Americans in defense of an idea of ideals that say that we’re all free, we have these inherent rights that are guaranteed us in the Constitution that we believe in democracy and that and that this is what bonds us together. People from different backgrounds, ethnicities against sexual orientations, gender, you name. But we all are bound around this notion of the Constitution what it means and they all swear there, raise your right hand. It’s rather both, and commit together lives to that, cause it just you can’t help but be inspired by it. It chokes you up, and every time I go out there just kind of renews your faith in the future and the next generation coming behind us. I mean, I’m sure you and I both remember when we stood on the plane at West point on a, you know, early morning in July or probably late afternoon, July raised her right hand and swore that oath for the first time and all the aspirations and potential we had. And again, you just get inspired that this next generation coming behind us is is going to carry that torch and remain committed to defending the country, the American people and all that we believe in, Mr Secretary. Thank you, Dave. Thank you. Was second. I just thank you for what you just said. That was really stirring. And we thank you for your public service and thank you for defending all of us in our country and and all best for the challenges that Thanks, Nic. Thanks to you and Dave, I’ve enjoyed our time. And, uh, thank you. Once again. I hope we can do it again sometime. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much.