Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition and Sustainment Ellen M. Lord and Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Policy David J. Trachtenberg take questions from reporters at the Pentagon concerning the Defense Department’s response to Turkey accepting delivery of the Russian S-400 air and missile defense system, July 17, 2019.
Transcript
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen and thank you for joining us today. This afternoon, Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and Sustainment, Ellen Lord and Deputy Under Secretary for Policy, David Trachtenberg will provide a Department of Defense update on Turkey’s accepting of the Russian S-400 system and what that means for the F-35 program moving forward. The purpose of the briefing is to focus on the F-35 and Turkey, so please limit your questions to that. Both leaders have an opening statement and then we’ll take your questions. We do have a hard stop at 3:30, so please be respectful with your questions so everyone will have a chance. Before we start, the Department would like to offer our condolences for the individuals Turkey lost during an attack today. Our hearts go out to their friends and families during this difficult time and the U.S. reaffirms its commitment to support the government and the people of Turkey. Ma’am, over to you.
Thank you, Mike. Thank you all for being here this afternoon. Last Friday, the United States learned that Turkey accepted delivery of a Russian S-400 air and missile defense system. I’m here today to highlight three things. One, the U.S. has full confidence in the F-35 program and supply chain. Two, the U.S. and other F-35 partners are aligned in this decision to suspend Turkey from the program and initiate the process to formally remove Turkey from the program. Three, as President Trump said in his statement today, the U.S. still values our strategic partnership with Turkey. The Department of Defense, and the U.S government more broadly, have worked very hard to chart an alternative path that would enable Turkey to acquire air defense systems within NATO alliance standards for interoperability and still allow Turkey to remain within the F-35 partnership. The United States has been actively working with Turkey over the sale of the Patriot air and missile defense systems to satisfy its legitimate air defense needs. Since early 2017, when Turkey began publicly discussing its interest in the Russian-made S-400 system, all levels of the U.S. government have consistently communicated that the F-35 and S-400 are incompatible. As other U.S. officials and I have clearly said, Turkey cannot field a Russian intelligence collection platform in proximity to where the F-35 program makes, repairs and houses the F-35. Much of the F-35’s strength lies in its stealth capabilities. So the ability to detect those capabilities would jeopardize the longterm security of the F-35 program. We seek only to protect the longterm security of the F-35 program. In early June, the Acting Secretary of Defense communicated to Minister Akar that unless Turkey canceled acceptance of this system, Turkey would be removed from the F-35 program in an orderly, respectful and deliberate manner. All actions to wind down were reversible and this was done to allow sufficient time for Turkish personnel associated with the F-35 program to be reassigned and depart the United States by July 31, 2019. Please understand we cannot answer any questions on the matters of intelligence. Turkey’s purchase of the S-400 is inconsistent with its commitments to NATO and will have detrimental impact on Turkish interoperability with the Alliance. Regardless of Turkey’s decision to proceed with the procurement of the Russian system, the F-35 international partnership is strong and resilient. I have regularly engaged with our partners as we sought a better outcome and began charting a path forward without Turkey’s participation in the program. Our partnership regrets that we have arrived at this moment but I and the F-35 Joint Program Office will continue to engage fully with our F-35 partners as we work to expeditiously complete the unwinding of Turkey’s participation in the partnership. We have been working in earnest to develop and implement changes to our supply base and supply chain to accommodate the potential for Turkish removal from the program. To bridge the gap initially to mitigate Turkey’s removal, the program will use primarily U.S. sources for Turkey’s work share but this will gradually open up to program partners for first, second and third sources. Because of this planning, Turkey’s removal from the F-35 program will have minimal impact on the larger F-35 partnership. We have also worked closely with our industry partners throughout this process and I have notified F-35 industry leaders of Turkey’s suspension to ensure the supply chain continues to stay closely informed and involved. Turkey will certainly, and regrettably, lose jobs and future economic opportunities from this decision. It will no longer receive more than nine billion dollars in projected work share related to the F-35 over the life of the program. Turkey made more than 900 parts for the F-35 and had been assigned more than one billion dollars in industrial participation across 10 Turkish suppliers. All Turkish F-35 students and instructor pilots currently in the United States have firm plans to leave the country. Roughly 20 Turkish personnel at the Joint Program Office will no longer retain access to JPO spaces. These actions to remove Turkey from the F-35 program are intended to mitigate risks to the F-35 and are separate from any congressionally mandated Russia-related sanctions under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, or CAATSA. I will defer all CAATSA questions to my colleagues at the State Department. In closing, and before Deputy Under Secretary Trachtenberg speaks, let me reiterate that Turkey remains a close NATO ally and our military-to-military relationship remains strong. We continue to honor our commitment to ensure the safety of our NATO ally and support missions benefiting regional security and stability, thank you. David.
Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you all for being here today. I will be brief in my comments. As Under Secretary Lord said, this is a rather unfortunate development and one the U.S. government has worked tirelessly to avoid but let me be clear. The United States greatly values our strategic relationship with Turkey, that remains unchanged. As longstanding NATO allies, our relationship is multilayered and extends well beyond the F-35 partnership. We will continue our extensive cooperation with Turkey across the entire spectrum of our security relationship. We have been clear and consistent that Turkey can choose to acquire the S-400 or the F-35; it cannot have both. Our decision to unwind Turkey’s participation in the F-35 program is no surprise, as our concerns have repeatedly been communicated to the Turkish government. Our reaction today is a specific response to a specific event. It is separate and distinct from the broader range of security interests where the United States and Turkey work together against common threats. Our military-to-military relationship remains strong and we will continue to participate with Turkey in multilateral exercises to improve readiness and interoperability, including upcoming exercises in Georgia, Germany and Ukraine as well as engage with Turkey on a broad range of NATO issues. While Turkey’s decision is unfortunate, ensuring the security and integrity of the F-35 program and the capabilities it will provide to our partners remains our top priority. Thank you.
We’re gonna start with Bob.
I have a quick question for each of you. Secretary Lord, of the decisions you announced about the suspension and the removal, are those reversible at this stage? And if I may ask a second question, on the policy question that you just described, the relationship with Turkey, Secretary Esper, just yesterday, said that he regrets that, more broadly, Turkey has been drifting away from the west. I’m wondering if you can explain how Turkey can remain a partner with the United States in defense in deterrence of Russia when it’s now gonna be operating a Russian-made air defense?
If I could take this second question first, I’d be happy to address that. All I would say to that is, clearly, we have worked with Turkey for many years as a strategic partner. Our military-to-military relationship, as I said in my opening statement, remains very strong. We understand Turkey has legitimate security requirements, we’ve worked with Turkey repeatedly. We continue to train and exercise with Turkish forces. Turkey has been a member of the NATO alliance longer than I have been alive, it has been well over six decades, and Turkey has been a reliable strategic partner during that time. From a departmental perspective and a military-to-military relationship perspective, we expect to continue that relationship to work, both bilaterally, and in a NATO context for the benefit of our security and for the benefit of the NATO alliance.
You’re making it sound like the fact that they have these Russian air defenses doesn’t really matter.
Oh, it does matter and that’s why we’re here today and that’s why we’re taking the action we’re taking.
Partnership continues and—
The partnership continues, our strategic partnership continues, but as I said, this is a specific response to a specific action.
Tony. Bob, you had three questions.
[Bob] I asked her a question.
You asked three questions.
She didn’t answer it.
Officer, why don’t you.
Okay.
If you can, ma’am. I prefer to inline (mumbles).
[Bob] I asked about whether it was reversible at this point.
At this point, the Turks have made a decision. We’ve said that the F-35 and the S-400 are incompatible. We will work forward at this point to unwind the relationship.
[Mike] Tony.
Okay, last July, Secretary Mattis warned the congressional committees that suspending Turkey from the program would have Draconian consequences. You might’ve helped draft the letter, actually, but 18 to 24 months to resource parts, 50 or so planes being delayed. What’s happened in the last year to mitigate those impacts?
We have worked on alternate sources for the over 900 parts. We have been working since 2018 on this. We are proceeding with a very orderly wind down through March 2020 at this point, so we expect minimal impact to the program.
Quantify the financial burden, the financial loss to Turkey. You said, I think you said, nine billion dollars going forward, does that—
Nine billion, we said, over the life of the program. They had roughly one billion dollars in commitments, as we sit here today.
And are those commitments gonna be abrogated or are those gonna be honored, a billion dollars of commitments?
We are winding down in March of 2020.
[Tony] Thank you.
[Mike] Bill.
[Bill] Ms. Lord, you said that the Turkish pilots and maintenance crews have firm plans to leave the country. Could you give me a little more detail on that and tell us whether or not any of them have asked for asylum in the United States and then, I have a question for Mr. Trachtenberg.
Just, all of the pilots knew that we had a July 31 deadline. I just spoke with Acting Secretary of the Air Force, Donovan, a little bit earlier this afternoon and said we were moving forward to suspend Turkey from the program. All of the pilots and maintainers are being notified as we speak. That’s as much information as I have now.
Okay and then, to you, sir. Could you let me know whether or not you’ve heard anything from Turkey about what actions they may take in response to what they see is an unfair move by the United States?
Oh, I’m not going to speculate on what actions the Turks may or may not take. I will reiterate the fact that we have made the Turkish government aware at multiple levels, on multiple occasions, that a decision to procure the S-400 would have consequences with respect to the F-35 program.
[Bill] Would you be surprised if there was a reaction from Turkey?
Again, I’m not gonna speculate on one way or the other.
Jeff.
[Jeff] Thank you. Miss Lord, is the Defense Department concerned that any of the Turkish pilots or maintainers who’ve trained on the F-35 could end up being provided to the Russians by the Turks, including the Turkish pilot who has already returned to Turkey and been arrested?
I’m not gonna speculate on that.
Tom.
Hi, former—
And then you.
[Tom] Former NATO ambassador Ivo Daalder said this is a major blow to the alliance. He also said it weakens the alliance. And you referred to interoperability, he said they can no longer take part in the integrated air defense of NATO. Could you respond to that?
I think it’s an unfortunate development, as we have both stated. And obviously, the S-400 is incompatible. We would’ve preferred, of course, a different decision but this was Turkey’s decision to make and just as it is our decision to respond to it as we see fit. Remember, our actions, the actions that we’re announcing here have been taken to preserve and protect the equities of NATO and our partners in the F-35 program. So we will continue to act with that uppermost and foremost in our mind.
If you could address that, Ms. Lord.
I don’t have anything to add.
Well, again, if they can no longer take part in integrated air defense, doesn’t that weaken the alliance?
I’ll stand by what I just said. I think we will continue to work with all of our NATO allies on ways of making sure that alliance security is preserved and protected to the maximum extent possible.
[Mike] Tom.
I wanted to follow up on comments both of you gave to us earlier when you first talked about the possible unwind. Secretary Lord, you said then, all the parts would be shifted by April. You just said March. Are you advancing it now to March, the replacement?
We said by the end of March. I haven’t changed that.
Okay. And in regards to the training exercises that may take place in the future, in the last briefing, you said that the F-35 would not be in any training exercises where the Turks were involved, I’m paraphrasing you slightly, but that’s what you all said, because that would risk the capability of the stealth in it. Do you still stand by that?
I don’t know that but I said that but, that the, I said the F-35 would not…
Yeah, I think the implication was because of, once the S-400s are established, that any exercises with the Turks in Turkey would not include the F-35.
I know we have a number of exercises scheduled, we’ve been participating with the Turks in an exercise that just took place last month, but in terms of specific aircraft or capabilities there, I’d have to take that and get back.
Okay.
Guys, we’re gonna have to speed this up ’cause we only have 10 minutes, so, Lucas.
Should Turkey be allowed to remain in NATO?
That’s a decision for the NATO alliance. Turkey is a member of NATO, it’s a longstanding member of NATO, it has adhered to NATO requirements and I’m not gonna say one way or the other what should or shouldn’t happen, that’s not for us here to decide.
Is the Patriot air defense system superior to the Russian S-400 air defense system?
I’m not gonna talk about specific capabilities and what is superior or what is inferior. I will tell you it is clear that we have offered the Patriot to Turkey on multiple occasions.
[Lucas] Is it a bad system, though, overall?
Go ahead.
Two quick ones, does Turkey get its money back for the jets its purchased and will the U.S. ban other stealthy planes like the F-22 or B-2 from participating in exercises anywhere near Turkey?
We are discussing the specifics about the aircraft they have purchased so far as we speak.
And I think the second question, the answer to the second question, I would have to take for the record and let you know because we are not focused on that right now.
Tony Bertuca.
Ms. Lord, what is the role of contractor Lockheed Martin going to be during this process and will this delay the program?
We have worked extremely closely with both Lockheed Martin and Pratt and Whitney because they both have part of the supply chain in Turkey and they are in lockstep with us, so they are just as involved as we are, and at this point in time, we see no delays to aircraft in the program if we work through the March 2020 date that we’re projecting.
[Mike] Billy.
Thank you, two quick questions. What is the message you are sending to other countries who are planning to buy S-400 from Russia, and secondly, can you have major defense partnership with India which is going ahead with a decision to buy S-400 from Russia?
I think the message we are sending is that we want to make sure that other countries are not purchasing equipment that is designed to counter our sophisticated fifth generation aircraft and I think the other message we’re sending is that we are consistent in our approach on this.
And on the major defense partnership with India?
The major defense partnership with India?
Can you have the major defense partnership with India which is going ahead with the decision to buy S-400?
Our defense partnership with India, I think, is strong and we’re looking to make it ever-stronger.
[Mike] Carla.
Two quick questions. So, you had said that the U.S. would continue to participate with Turkey in upcoming international exercises. Do any of these exercises involve air defense training? That’s question number one, and then a follow would be, has the United States made alternative plans for its operations in Syria and Iraq because a lot of these jets use Turkish airspace to carry out these operations?
Carla, I won’t talk about the Syria and Iraq piece of this. Right now, we’re focused on the F-35 and in terms of the exercises, I’ll be happy to get back to you with the specifics in more detail, in terms of the kinds of capabilities that would be involved.
But if they do require air defense in that training, would Turkey just not take part in that?
I would get back to you on that.
[Mike] In that back, please.
[Journalist] Thank you. President Trump said a couple of times that it is unfair to cancel the delivery of the F-35 jets to Turkey. Why is the president and DOD are not looking eye to eye on this issue, please?
I don’t understand why we wouldn’t be eye to eye. The president made a statement. I think it is consistent with what we have announced.
Said that it is unfair to cancel the delivery of the F-35, over 100 F-35 jets, to Turkey. Yesterday, he made this statement on camera, that’s what I’m talking about.
The president also said Turkey would not get the F-35 and that is consistent with the policy that we are announcing.
How about the unfair comments of the president? Do you have any comments for us?
Sir, I think he’s addressed that. We’re gonna go right here.
[Journalist] As you know, the European engine depot for the F-35 is, well, it’s supposed to be in Turkey. What are you doing to replace that capability and what other European country’s going to get that?
There is capacity in the two other European countries that have engine MRO in use. I’ll get back to you with the details on this.
Ma’am.
Great.
[Journalist] Yes, were the units in the allocate joint military exercise dating next month again and they join, in like, Ulchi-Freedom exercise? What is your schedule for it?
I’m sorry, I didn’t hear the full question.
Ulchi-Freedom exercise, the U.S. and South Korean, joint military exercise.
ROK exercise?
Yes, yes.
Do you have any planned for next month?
We’re here to talk about Turkey and the F-35. We can take that question and we’ll get back to you.
Sure.
Ryan.
In your many conversations with the Turkish counterparts leading up to this decision, were they still optimistic that this would not go forward?
I certainly don’t wanna characterize, one way or another, the conversations that’ve taken place, other than to reiterate that we have had conversations at multiple levels with the Turkish government and we’d made our position crystal clear.
[Mike] Tim.
Maybe you answered this question for Tony. I didn’t quite understand it. How much more expensive will this make the program overall for the United States by shipping the supply chain?
The United States is spending between 500 and 600 million dollars in non-recurring engineering in order to shift the supply chain.
Here.
[Journalist] Is there an idea of when an announcement could be made about more details about the aircraft that are, the over a hundred aircraft, that were committed to go to Turkey, about when that might come out? A plan for that?
We are working through that right now. I think your question is, who might buy those and so forth. We are working through the spread of that right now, so I don’t have a specific timeframe.
Jeff.
Just want to clarify, Ms. Lord, if Turkey gives back the S-400s today, does that mean they are eligible again to participate in the F-35 program?
I can’t provide any insight into that, that would be conjecture.
I just want to rephrase my question. Has Turkey provided any personnel or technology from the F-35 to Russia?
I can’t speculate.
[Mike] Marcus.
[Marcus] I know you said you can’t talk about CAATSA but you have to deal with a lot of these companies who could be impacted by it. Are you able to say any concerns that these companies have expressed and any of those concerns, have you brought them to the inner agency that’s reviewing this?
We work closely with our defense industrial base and keep them apprised of everything they know. So we talk about all types of contingencies but we’ve been extremely transparent, I think, on this.
We’re gonna go Ryan, then we’re gonna go here, we’re gonna end with you, go ahead.
[Journalist] Just a quick follow up, ma’am, you said that all the partners were aligned with this decision. Did they have to approve this decision, the partner nation involved in the program, did that have to get approved by all the other partners or was it a U.S. unilateral decision?
We had a consensus on that, we’ve discussed it multiple times.
Yeah, I just wanted to get an update on where you left the Patriot sale with Turkey, whether Turkey ever formally rejected that and whether this decision to buy the S-400 and get it delivered will have any impact on other U.S. sales or potential sales in the future.
I can’t speculate on what will happen in terms of other sales. As I said, we’ve offered the Patriot to Turkey numerous times. If Turkey’s interested in the Patriot, they will let us know.
[Journalist] Did they ever formally reject the Patriot system?
We’ve been back and forth multiple times with the Turks on that particular issue.
I want to get back to the fact that Turkey will no longer be able to take part in integrated air defense system of NATO. In your opinion, does that strengthen NATO, weaken NATO or have no impact at all?
I think I’ve addressed that as part of my previous response. I think—
Have any impact at all?
I don’t wanna speculate in terms of what’s going to happen with respect to NATO’s weakening or strengthening. My only point was that the decisions we’re taking here are intended to strengthen the partners and our capabilities in an alliance context.
A major member of the alliance not being able to take part in an air defense system, how can that not weaken the alliance?
I think I’ve addressed that.
We’re gonna go ahead and ma’am, do you have any closing remarks?
Thank you, I’d just like to reemphasize that the F-35 partnership remains strong and that Turkey is a strategic partner to the U.S. Thank you.
Sir, did you have anything you wanted to say?
Yeah, the only thing that I would close with is just to reiterate the fact that the actions that we have taken and have announced here are specific responses to specific action taken by the Turks. The strategic partnership we have with Turkey remains and we will continue to work with the Turks wherever we can for the benefit of our security and the NATO alliance. Thank you all.
Thank you, sir,
for being here.
thank you, ma’am, thank you for joining us, have a great day.
[Man] Thank you.