Washington Foreign Press Center Briefing on “Understanding America: The Legacy of Martin Luther King.”
Transcript
Washington Foreign press centers on the record briefing on the legacy of Martin Luther King. My name is Jen McAndrew, and I am today’s moderator. First, I will introduce our briefer, and then I will give the ground rules. Today’s briefer is Doctor Claiborne Carson, an eminent historian and director of Stanford University’s Martin Luther King Research and Education Institute. Dr Carson is a nationally recognized expert on the life of Martin Luther King, selected in 1985 by Mrs Coretta Scott King. Toe edit and publish the papers of her late husband. Dr. Carson has devoted his life to the study of Martin Luther King on the civil rights movement he inspired. He has edited numerous books based on King’s papers, including The autobiography of Martin Luther King ahead of Martin Luther King Day, to be observed January 18th in 2021. Dr Carson will provide insight and analysis of how the legacy of Martin Luther King continues to provide ah model for addressing Rachel racial injustice. Today we appreciate Dr Carson for giving his time today for this briefing and now for the ground rules. This briefing is on the record, the views expressed by briefers not affiliated with the Department of State or U. S government are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the Department of State or the U. S. Government Participation in foreign press. Enter programming does not imply endorsement, approval or recommendation of their views. We will post the transcript of this briefing later today on our website f p c dot state dot gov. If you publish the story as a result of this briefing, please share it with us. Professor Carson will give opening remarks, and then we will open it up for Q and A. If you have a question, please go to the participant field and virtually raise your hand. Or you can submit it in writing in the chat box. If you have not already done so, please take the time now to rename your zoom profile with your full name and the name of your media outlet. And with that, I will pass it over to Professor Carson over to you. Well, I can’t think of a better time more appropriate time than the last few months. Uh, given the events of the last few months to talk about Martin Luther King is his legacy. I’ve been thinking a lot about it as I’ve watched Theoretician last fall and, of course, the recent events in Washington. And I’m kind of reminded of Charles Dickens writing about the French Revolution when he said, It’s the best of times in the worst of times and I think that this would express Martin Luther King’s view of this because he lived through another very tumultuous times during the 19 sixties. And I think that on how he recognized that that time of momentous change was also a time of uh huh that had e think uncertain consequences. He could see that the passage of the Voting Rights Act, which enfranchised million’s of black citizens of the United States, was also going to provoke a backlash. And when he spoke in Selma after the March voting rights march in 1965 he noted that the denial of the franchise had brought about the segregation era after the Civil War. Another time, a promise from the 15th Amendment was passed, giving black people the right to vote, but almost immediately followed by the rise of a new a system of segregation. The Jim Crow system in the South. And in the 19 sixties, what King witnessed was that after the passage of the Voting Rights Act, there was a white backlash. There was the Southern strategy. Um, Lyndon Johnson and Martin Luther King both understood that, uh, even as the the nation was moving beyond segregation, there was going to be a strong reaction to that. And indeed, that was the Southern strategy. And I would just point out that the 1964 election of Lyndon Johnson over Barry Goldwater was the last election that a majority of white Americans voted for a Democrat. It hasn’t happened since, so I would also point out that any period of rapid social change is going to produce a reaction. And I think that’s what culminated in this, um, very eventful period of last year. What I would suggest is that all of the social movements of the last 50 or 60 years the civil rights movement, the women’s movement, the gay rights movement, the environmental movements, all of these movements have been steps forward toward what Martin Luther King would call, um, or just and peaceful world. But they have also produced a reaction, and I think in the last year. We’ve seen both that movement forward with black lives matter protests of last spring and summer, perhaps the most important social activism since the 19 sixties in the United States. Um, farm involving farm or people. I was at the march on Washington in 1963 and I was so amazed to see 200,000 people there. But when I realized that young people last spring mobilized more than 10 times that many just within a few days, I realized that something important was happening. And I think if I had understood King’s wisdom, I would have also cautioned myself and said, You haven’t seen the reaction yet, Andi, I think in the last a few months we’ve seen the reaction. Yes, Joe Biden won the presidency. But it is also the case that Donald Trump received more votes than any Republican candidate in history. And I think the events of the capital suggests that there is this angry reaction, not just about the election. I I don’t think that that explains what happened to the cap. I think it’s a reaction to the rapid changes that have been going on with respect to all of these movements. That is reaction of those who feel threatened. At the same time other people feel hopeful and about the changes that are occurring. Eso we do live through this time of yeah, that, I would say, is a season of hope in a season of despair at the same time. And so I just wanted to lay out that as a background of how I feel that Martin Luther King and his last book, Where do we go from here? Chaos or community? I’ve seen some movement toward community, especially in the world, But I’ve also seen, um, the alternative. The chaos. Uh, that’s what happened to the capital. So? So I think this is a hopeful time, but it’s also a time of great concern about what Will, um, what the future will bring eso without open I being eager to answer your questions, whatever they are. Thank you, Professor. Eso will now open it up to Q and A. Uh, you have the option of either submitting questions in writing in the Chatfield or you are able to use the participant field to raise your hand. If you would like to be called on for a live question. This is a quite bunch this morning. Uh, Professor, I know there’s a lot of activities happening at Stanford, Uh, on the actual holiday itself, Maybe you could share a little bit more information about what you were doing. Thio memorialize the legacy this year. Well, I invite everyone here to join us for a webinar film festival that will take place starting on the evening of the 15th and going through the King holiday on the 18th. We will be film festival is human rights, civil rights, um, films that we will be making available for free. Um, anyone who wants to join the Webinar anywhere in the world. Um, and, uh, the webinar itself will allow us to basically open three King Papers Project and the King Institute to all who want toe learn about its work will be showing. For example, um, news conferences of Martin Luther King during his lifetime. A number of speeches by him. Um, So it’ll it’ll be an educational weekend when I think everyone will benefit from from seeing it, and it’s entirely free. Thank you. Okay, we do have a hand raised from Pearl Motive. Open parliament, Zimbabwe Pearl. We will on mute you if you’d like to ask your question. Thank you very much. Um, I don’t know so much a question, but I know that the civil rights movement and the Soviet Union had a very close interlinked relationship during that Cold War period. Could you share a little bit about perhaps what influence or what helped the civil rights movement and maybe perhaps such Martin Luther King received from the Soviet Union? That may be either changed perceptions about how African heritage is perceived or anything of that nature. What what positive things came out off that Soviet Cold War period. And that relationship that very close relationship between the Soviet Union and these civil rights movement. And is there any change now between the Russian Federation and the civil rights movement? Thank you. I don’t really accept the premise of the question. I was an activist, and in some what a leader in that struggle. And I know that Martin Luther King and other leaders were very sensitive and worried about even the appearance that in the Cold War, the Soviet Union was helping this the struggle and indeed the the involvement of even former communists, uh, in the movement was such a controversial and, um, aspect that it led Thio the FBI investigating Martin Luther King and and being very hostile to him. So So I think of anything that most elements in the civil rights movement wanted to avoid, even the suggestion that that they were on the communist side in the Civil War. Having said that, I think that that fear of being smeared as Communist inhibited the ability of leaders of the movement to put forward programs that could be labeled a socialist. And I think that that fear has persisted that, unlike most countries, we do not have ah, socialized medical system in the United States. Um, we did not have many of the, um, protections of workers that we have in many other countries, and I think they’re a large part of the reason for that is that fear that anything label socialist would, uh, would weaken the movement? I know that Martin Luther King was himself very concerned about that. Thank you for that. I would like to now call on Alexis Wisam from LaQuan, France, now on YouTube. Thank you, Jenna. Thank you, Jen, for organizing this and the Hello, Dr Carson. I had a had a question about Reverend Warn Arc and more generally, about the religious left today in the U. S. I was wondering what was your assessment of the strength off the religious left today in US politics? I think it’s always been a strong element, Um, going back to the beginning of American history. You know, not they wouldn’t have called it the left. Then they would have called it the I think, the kind of idealistic people religious people in, for example, the anti slavery movement or the late 19th century, uh, Martin Luther King’s social Gospel. I think his was representative of that, um so I think that it’s always been a strong element, and it remains that, you know, I don’t think it’s an accident that Reverend Warnock, who I know Well, um, is the pastor of King’s former church and that, um, this to me indicates that the church is one of the strongest institutions. Andi, when I say the black church, I don’t mean every black church eyes, uh, on the side of the social gospel. You know, there are askew May know many black ministers who are on the more conservative side on many issues. But I think, uh, yeah, Ebony’s or church. Even under King’s father and under Kings grandfather, they were civil rights leaders. They were president of the local chapters of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, the NAACP. So I think that Reverend Warnock represents that. And I think another thing about it is that I mentioned the Southern Strategy Southern strategy waas um, designed to. And it succeeded in convincing tens of millions of white Americans who had always voted Democratic before that to move over to the Republican side. That was the largest movement of voters in American history, you know. And it was quite sudden people who had literally voted Democratic every election in their life suddenly became Republican Andi. That shape that has shaped American politics for a long time. So the fact that war knock one the two Democrats won in Georgia, a southern state, I think suggests that maybe the Southern strategy has it’s lifespan is coming to an end. That’s a least hope, you know that this, uh but I think I’d have to say again that the majority of white Georgians voted for Trump. So e wouldn’t I have to caution myself against too much optimism about one election. Just like after the election of Obama. There was many people who were saying that that that represented the decline and demise of racism as a factor in American politics. And all we have to say is wait late eight years and then you’ll find out Thank you, Thank you. We’ll take a couple more live questions. And then I see we have a few questions that have come in and the chat uh, feature. But for now, I’d like to call on David Smith from the Guardian. We will now in YouTube. Um, yet yet Hello. EDS In the Guardian here, um, I’m writing and asking at the moment about a play called One Night in Miami has just been turned into a film as well. I don’t know if you’re aware of it, Z about now it’s about Malcolm X on DMA, Hamad Ali and others. Uh, I have heard. Yes, um, I was going to ask you if you’re familiar with it, what you think of it. But more generally, I wonder what What do you think today is is Malcolm X is legacy. And what would he make off America in 2020? Everything from Obama to Trump to the black lives, Massive protests toe Joe Biden. You know, it’s interesting, I read, Um, just over this last week, I reread Martin Luther King’s last book, Where do we Go From here? And it has a chapter about black power and Andi, as you may realize, Martin Luther King was, um, use the book to attack the black power slogan Andi Hey saw that as young not really Ah, positive direction. But at the same time, he said that it is absolutely necessary that black people gain a sense of pride, gain a sense of their own power as a people. Hey, he was somewhat ambivalent about the slogan. And you know, it’s it’s interesting that he he was a friend of Stokely Carmichael, who popularized that slogan that he had good relationships with. You know, I think that if Malcolm X had lived, he and King would have sat down and discussed their differences and and that might have lessened the negative impact, you know, because the white backlash against black militancy was a large part of the Southern Strategy. Yeah, and s. So I I think that that period of going in the late sixties and going into the seventies when black power black militancy was at its highest point, was for King troubling because, ah, lot of that involved attacks on non violence attacks on him and eso it divided the black community at just the time when you needed to have some unity. But I think looking back, what I would I would suggest is that every movement produces that sense of a new sense of identity. And the black struggle of the 19 sixties did that for black people. It gave us a new sense of identity, and that was the positive aspect of it. But of course, there was along without a sense of despair. You know, that change wasn’t coming fast enough that, um, you know, the the resentments of the past. So you still see that today you see, ah sense of of a new sense of identity coming out of all of these social struggles. And I guess what I would suggest is that there’s always two sides of the coin that each group that goes through at that sense of liberation also faces a backlash from people who are made uncomfortable by people who are once oppressed. People who are once, um oh, denigrated can now have power. Um, you know, now we have a, um, black person representing Georgia to, and you have a Jewish person. You have You have a gay person running for president and being taken seriously, you know? So all of these are positive, but they’re also producing a reaction. People were saying change is coming too fast. I’m losing my privileges. And that resent, but fuels trumpism. So that’s where we are as a society. Thank you. Thank you. I’m not going to go to a question that was submitted Whiting via the chat field. And this is from Beatrice Boola from the Brazilian newspaper Oh, Studio in Sao Paulo. Her question is, Professor, you mentioned that last year we had the most important social activism since the 19 sixties in the U. S. Do you believe it is a result of these movements and specifically the call for equality? Uh, that can lead us to understand the election results in Georgia and having the first black vice president in the White House. Yes, I think that’s that’s the general point I would I’d like to make Is that I see what has happened. What happened last year as very, very positive. Um, and I think it’s the culmination of a Siris of movement since the 19 sixties. Environmental movements, uh, movements, uh, for gay rights movements that, um, you know, kind of represent the discontent of young people over gun violence. You know that that drew a million people to Washington that protest eso You’re seeing this expression of, uh, people who are discontented with the way things are wants to see change, want to end depression, want to end, uh, in destruction of the environment there. And they want change. And I think that’s the challenge to Joe Biden is that that’s what elected him, You know, it wasn’t it wasn’t this shift among conservative whites. It was It was the explosion of energy among young people. And they didn’t do this because they’re Democrats. They did it because they’re trying to change the world for the better. So the question for Joe Biden is I think the Democratic Party for decades has followed the strategy of trying to get back what they call the Reagan Democrats. You know, the people who left the Democratic Party went over to the Republicans. But there’s another strategy, and that is you mobilize thes voters. He, uh, who represents change. Now who are you going as president? Who are you going to try to try most? Are you going to try to keep that coalition together that elected you, or are you going to persist and saying, OK, let’s try toe, reach out to the the Prompters and try to bring them back? I would strongly argue that the former strategy is a much more much wiser strategy, much more likely to produce results. And I don’t think you can always do that, both of them at the same time. So that’s going to be the dilemma of Joe Biden. Thank you. I have one more question. The chat box, and then we’ll return Thio Live questions. I see a couple more hands raised. This question is from Rafiq Garbanzo of C, IBC, Azerbaijan. I will read the question exactly as it’s written. In light of the legacy of Martin Luther King, how are his views reverberating among right wing groups, especially among those who attacked the capital. Well, not very much. I would think that if he were still around, he would be a target. I mean A to root of Martin Luther King’s philosophy, though, was the notion of Nonviolence and his notion of Nonviolence was that you always try to turn the person who is opposing you into a friend. You try to, and I think that most social movements try to do that. They try to say two things I want change a demand change because the existing uh huh um, existing policies air destructive, oppressive. So I want change. But I’m not going to focus my attention on hating the person who is the cause of the oppression because that you want to change that person’s perspective. And that’s what non violence is. Um, Nonviolence also is the use of the vote. I mean, democracy, properly understood, is an expression of Nonviolence. It’s saying that I want change, but I want to do it peacefully and when that’s possible. But But I think that what’s so disturbing about the takeover, the capital, is that it was a response to democracy. It was it was saying, I refused to accept the democratic process, and I think that’s that’s what’s disturbing to me. Most disturbing about Donald Trump is that this is not new. Before, when he was running against Hillary Clinton back in 2016, he said before the election, when he was asked directly, will you accept the election result? And he refused to say yes. That should have eliminated him from being a candidate. That should be the democratic system. If you refused or even suggest that you will not accept the election result, that should eliminate you from being part of that system. Okay, Returning to live questions, we have a hand raised from Nikkila and Natore John of the Indo Asian News Service in India. Uh, nikkila we will now on mute you. Thank you so much. Thank you, Professor. I’m sorry. I’m not putting on my video because I’m sitting near a window and it’s, like, looks really dark. Um, so my question really is about what does, uh, Kamala Harris mean in this moment? I know she has herself talked so much about it. She was actually born during the civil rights protests. Um, she has framed that legacy, but for scholars like you. What does her candidacy mean? What does her ascension to power mean? Thank you. I think it’s an important, um, aspect of what has happened in the last year. I mean, first of all, having a um, female vice president is a very important step and making America more democratic or egalitarian. Um, I knew her father, who was a colleague of mine at Stanford, And I I think that, um, you know, to me, her ability to achieve political success is a progression of the changes that have occurred in terms of, you know, the people think of the sixties as a time of civil rights change. But it was also a time of immigration reform, taking the racist elements out of three American immigration system that had always been there since the beginning of the republic, of who could be who could become an American. And, you know, the the Immigration Act, to me, was just a Z important in terms of shaping modern America as perhaps the Civil Rights Act, because it changed the demographics of the country. And so I think that what we what we see with her election is that now you have a t least the possibility for a, um for democracy to work in ways that, um will result in a mark humane society. Um, you know, she has risen quite rapidly in the American political system. And why not? She’s she’s bright. She’s shown her competence at at every level. And I think that that’s, um, going that bodes well for the future. Um, you know, when I look at the last election, I you know, I see two things I see at the at the top level. Joe Biden, who’s kind of a traditional Democratic, um, politician. It’s been around for many, many years, but I also see some of my former students, uh, becoming involved in the political system. People like Cory Booker on Susan Rice and you know others who have been elected to office and and that, to me, is the most hopeful sign, because these people have grown up in a changing America. They don’t feel threatened by change. They don’t feel threatened. As some, um, older Americans might feel that things were changing too fast, and in fact, many of them think it’s changing too slow. Andi and and I think that That’s what gives me hope that the Democratic Party and I think eventually the Republican Party we’ll recognize and accept the changes and and not be forces of resistance. But the voices of change. Um, you know, and it’s, um you know, I think that as I travel around the world, these hm, these factors that make this both the season of hope in a season of worry and despair is, uh, something that’s happening throughout the world. I feel the same as I, uh, travel in India or traveling Zimbabwe, Brazil. You know, all of these countries are facing similar kinds of challenges. And I just mentioned those because I noticed that some of the questions are coming from people from those places and on. So I think that that combination of a nup surge of liberation people desiring to to exercise political power and participate in the political system and to and to have their rights respected and to and to produce political leaders who feel that their servants of the people rather than yeah, um, dictators, you know that that’s something that’s a challenge that many countries air facing. How do you How do you build a political system that respects the rights of women. That allows a free vote that allows people who were not of one ethnicity and, you know, to participate equally. You know, that’s that’s something that is a global issue. And I think King recognized that. I think that’s one of the reasons why his ideas have such relevance in so many countries. So that’s that’s where we are. It’s a to me. It’s a hopeful time. Thank you, Professor. Okay, I see Pearl, you still have your hand raised. So I’ll come back to you for a follow up question. Thank you very much. So my question is I wonder if you can help us understand, Um, an element, Perhaps beyond be, you know, the oppression and so on. That kind of was the route issues in the civil rights movement, but we’re all mostly journalists here today, and in the writing and the media about people off African heritage, it sometimes has a negative connotation or negative way that people of African heritage are described by media by institutions and by people in general. Is there was there at any time during this little, you know, early times of the civil rights movement anytime now, recently, where their efforts to dispel to change Publix the way you know the way people of African heritage are described, or you know certain words and language that that are used as descriptors to being lesser than are there any efforts within the movement to kind of begin to change, educate and change that kind of narrative, particularly also in the media. We see it a lot amongst journalists as we right and so on. I just wondered, Is there any element off changing that to a more positive, particularly dispelling the negative way Africa. People of African heritage are understood or perceived. Thank you. I would say yes, quite a bit. You know, again, when I go back to Kings last book, where do we go from here? He gets into that discussion of how the English language, for example, has, um, so many connotations of just the word black Aziz Negative. And how any kind of liberation struggle is also a struggle about culture, about language. About part of black pride was expressed early in the century of of just simply capitalizing the word negro. Um, getting rid of the N word and saying that that’s that’s not acceptable and you know, you, you you see that with the women’s movement, you see that with any movement that is about liberation is also about changing attitudes about changing the culture, and I think that’s what makes it so threatening. You know, Part of Trump’s appeal was that, um he wasn’t politically correct, and I think that for many people that Dr which they call it politically correct political correctness, But I would just call it simple sensitivity to people like to be identified, like to have control over the way they’re identified in public. And no group ever will accept terms and terminology and a kind of language that, um destroys their sense of pride and and and it makes them feel excluded and powerless. So So that that struggle, yes, that’s been going on. Uh huh. That was a an element of the entire struggle for civil rights from from its inception. It was a struggle about culture. It was a struggle about who who determines how I am described and labeled in the society. Um, that’s that’s why writers, you know, people like, uh, de voice and James Baldwin and Langston Hughes, And that was always part of their message was, We want to speak for ourselves. We want to use our own language. We want to write our own history. That’s why I am a historian is that I grew up reading, Ah, history of America, written by white people. And now we have my history of of America that is more balanced and takes into account the perspectives of the slave as well as the slave master. And, yeah, that’s, you know, that that’s what’s happening right now in the sense of here I am speaking about American society. 50 years ago, I would not be speaking to the foreign press. You know, that’s that’s that. That’s part of the changes that you have a generation of black Americans who speak for themselves and are able to be heard and ableto have a platform and able to be broadcasters unable to be presidents. Um, that was the importance of the election of Obama. Was that now you now you could imagine what it was like to have a black president and and, you know, that produced the reaction of Trump. I don’t I think, without the election of Obama in 2000 and eight, There would be no trump in 2016. Thank you. I’d like to call on Alex from Theron. News Agency. Azerbaijan. Yeah. Alex? Yes? Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Yes. Thank you, John. Great to see you on, Professor. Thank you so much for making yourself available this this afternoon. I’m Alex Raffle. Ooh, from Chinese agents of Azerbaijan. MLK had a lofty but much long for dream, right? You’ve made it perfectly clear that protected civil rights in a country include, you know, the right to vote equality in the public places. But also freedom of press speech, etcetera. Uh, echoing my colleagues questions earlier. I wonder if you could give us a short list off current examples off key civil rights issues that are alive and the most challenging, in your opinion, both at home and also perhaps international, Given our audiences, Thank you so much. I think that the probably the primary global, you know, there’s a lot of global issues. I mean, obviously the climate issue. But in terms of of social issues, what seems to be a concern around the world is what do we do about migration. Uh, in a new earlier century, the United States was very open to European migration that made American industrialization possible. You know, they Italians in the Eastern Europeans who, uh, came in by the millions into the United States during the 19th century, did not have to go and get a visa. Uh, and in fact, the need to get a visa was the result of a reaction against European immigration in the 19th and early 20th century. So during the 19 twenties, that changed. Now we live in a very interconnected world. I can look at the area around the Silicon Valley. Silicon Valley would not exist without extensive immigration. Um, the European Community would not exist without extensive immigration. So the rich countries in the world have have recognized that and respond to that by saying, But we want we want to select who comes in. We do not want poor people coming in. We want skilled people to come in. And so I think that that issue is probably the issue of the 21st century. How are we going to resolve that? Because you can’t stop migration. Um, if someone is desperate, they will do practically anything to get to a more hospitable place. My grand parents to get out of the South in the early 20th century, if there had been a national border at the edges of the South, they would have crossed it to get to Detroit in Pittsburgh, in New York, regardless of the law, regardless of the dangers they would have, they would have crossed that border. And you know what I think about just how here we are in the Southwest of the United States and I don’t People are closer than they were then. So I think that how people resolve this issue and begin to develop a humane policy about poverty, you know, precisely the issues that King was talking about during his time, he said. There are three evils in the world racism, war, poverty. And all of that is mixed up in the issue of immigration. What causes people to immigrate? What caused millions of people who look the Syria? You know all of these issues and I think that was another one of his insights. He he was saying that all of these air enter related because the world is inter related and how we respond to that, I think will say a lot about whether the 21st century is going to be peaceful or now, as he said it Z either chaos or community. Either the world will be a community or there’ll be a lot of chaos. Chaos in it. And we’ve seen signs of both. Thank you, Professor. I think we have time for one more question. And this has been submitted in the chat box from Masako Shimizu of Kyoto, News of Japan. Her question is, I believe that it is essential Thio no Dr King’s legacy in order to understand the US as a foreign correspondent, especially for someone like me, from a country of not really mixed races. I wonder what Dr King would say to see this deeply divided U S country? Well, you know that Z what I always ask myself, you know, as editor of his papers, what would Martin Luther King to say? What would you think about this time, period? And I think that’s what I started with in this, um, news conference. Um, I think that he would see reasons for hopes and reason for work. Uh um, I think that America, this country as narrowly avoided what he would call chaos. Oh, you know, way had a relatively close election. We have a A Americans, white Americans have. For many years, many white Americans have resisted change in a lot of different areas. But the whole coming out of the protests last summer is that that wasn’t black people by themselves, demanding at the end of police brutality and police killings of black people. It was predominantly on the national level, a non white movement. So how do you put these two things together? The the fact that that a majority of white voters in the United States have never voted for the more liberal candidate in any election since 1964 and the fact that we’ve had a black president and we will have a, um, a black senator from Georgia, you know, how do you put these two things together? How do you How do you make sense of the obvious fact that 70 some million Americans decided to vote for a candidate who said, on many occasions, I will not necessarily accept the outcome of the election and we find ourselves at least some surprised that he really meant what he said back in 19 on 2016 when he was running for office. So it’s it’s troubling, but yeah, so you combine that hope with despair. Um, that’s what King did during his lifetime. Is he combined? Hope with despair is that the only way of getting out of this dilemma is through and acceptance of non violence, which at its basis, is democracy. At its best is Nonviolence. Um, democracy is at best, a decision of political leaders to accept the the fact that they are servants of the people, your servants of the majority of the people who put them in office, actually, the majority of the people, because you if you were in office, you have to represent even the people who didn’t vote for you. So how do we get to that stage? But you know, I think from the very beginning all the great leaders of America have recognized how fragile democracy is that it’s not the natural condition of mankind. Autocracy. Domination is the natural condition of humanity that we have to struggle toe achieve something different than than that on, uh, you know, So that’s where we are and we’re fortunate toe have people like Gandhi and King and others who are pointing the way to saying there is this alternative, but it Z it’s one that, yeah, it takes a lot of courage to to rely on. It’s much. It’s much easier if you if you are worried about the political future, to be on in a dominant position and be able to command Uh huh What you want. It’s much more difficult to say I need to persuade in order to get what I want. Well, with that, I think we’ve come to the end of our time a za reminder. Everyone, the transcript and video of speaking will be posted on our website within the next 24 hours. I wanna extend our thanks on behalf of the Washington foreign present or to Professor Carson for this really critical and timely perspective. Onda professor, he’d like to offer any final words. I think I’ve said enough, okay, but but I have a feeling that there will be a few more questions in the next couple of days. Thank you very much again, Professor. And good afternoon. Good afternoon to you.