Ellen M. Lord, undersecretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment, speaks about the use of Chinese drones by U.S. law enforcement and the risks posed to communities. The virtual event is sponsored by The Heritage Foundation, September 10, 2020. Video courtesy of The Heritage Foundation.
Transcript
2000 commercial drones in operation at the end of 2016. Today, there are more than 385,000 such drones, and the FAA forecast the commercial fleet to grow over to grow to over 835,000 by 2023 which is an average annual growth rate of 25%. And as a market, it will be worth over $129 billion by 2025. Most of the drones in the market is comprised of Chinese manufactured drones, which carries security risks. While federal agencies have distanced themselves from Chinese made drones, state and local law enforcement agencies certainly used them, which raises infrastructure risks and concerns, among others. We have a great program lined up for you today and I’m delighted to tell you a bit about our speakers. First, we have the Honorable Ellen Lord joining us from the Defense Department, where she is the undersecretary for acquisition and sustainment. In this capacity, she is responsible to the secretary of defense for all matters pertaining to acquisition and sustainment, and works closely with all of the service departments and military agencies. Prior to this appointment, Miss Lord served as the president and chief executive officer of Textron Systems Corporation and has more than 30 years of experience in the defense industry. Miss Lord is a former vice chairman of the National Defense Industrial Association. Following Undersecretary Lord, we have a panel of three speakers. They are Brendan Groves, who is the head of regulatory and policy affairs at Sky Dio, the largest U. S drone manufacturer. Before joining Scottie Oh, Brendan served most recently as the associate deputy attorney general in the U. S. Department of Justice, where he managed DOJ s national security policy portfolio and developed and lead D. O. J’s Aircraft drone program. As a man, A member of the FAA is Executive committee on Unmanned Aircraft Systems, or US. Brendan shaped the government’s approach to integrating drones into the national airspace and led the effort to counter the threat posed by malicious drones. Brendan also served as special counsel to the general counsel of the N S A, and he began his career as an Air Force JAG officer. He’s a graduate of Yale Law School and Pepperdine University. Second, we have art mogul who recently recently retired as lieutenant from the New York City Police Department, where he served for nearly 23 years. There he participated as an adviser on the FAA is drone encounter US committees, Art conducted research, development, test and evaluation of emerging technologies. Developed programs to detect, deter and mitigate unmanned aircraft systems attacks. And he worked jointly with federal and D O D Partners on the counter US security operations for special events in New York City. He currently serves in the U. S. Army reserves. He’s received the Bronze Star, and he has a bachelor of science degree from New York University’s Stern School of Business. And finally, my colleague and co author of the report Chinese Made Drones. A direct Threat whose use should be curtailed is JV Venable. Jay Z is a senior research fellow for defense policy at the Homeland. Excuse me at the Heritage Foundation, where he focuses on air and space issues. He’s a 25 year veteran of the U. S Air Force. He’s served in three combat operations, served at 16 locations around the world as a forward air controller, fighter pilot, staff officer and commander. And he’s the former commander of the celebrated Thunderbirds, he received a bachelor’s degree in business management from Ohio University, where he was also a distinguished graduate of the Air Force Rossi. He holds a master’s degrees in aeronautical sciences, from Embry Riddle Aeronautical University and in strategic studies from the Air War College. Now I’d like to invite Undersecretary Lord to join me on camera to give her remarks, and then I will follow up with a few questions, Mrs Lord, over to you. Good afternoon and thank you for the introduction, Laura, and thank you to the Heritage Foundation for arranging this virtual session. I’m really delighted to be part of today’s event and read with Interest the background paper on Chinese made drones. This is really a significant opportunity this afternoon to share the Department of Defense is views on global small unmanned aircraft systems the market as well, a cybersecurity impacts associated with each of these systems. And I’m especially eager to highlight that that we have within D o D. Identified, designed a blue or friendly for us and allies, US. Architecture on. I’d like to talk a little bit about how we’re trying to strengthen the security and resilience of the defense industrial base or the dib for small us. So the problem, as I see it, is that the People’s Republic of China dominates the global market for small us, specifically a single Chinese company, D. J. I has maintained a monopoly in U. S. Manufacturing with around 77% of small US market share. Intel follows far behind D. J I with only 3.7% of the market for small US technology in the 1000 to $2000 price segment. D J Eyes market share is even higher at approximately 86%. The small US market will continue to grow and it’s estimated that the industry will be worth $43 billion by 2024. We know that the volume of Chinese small U. S. Exports will continue thio increase unless there’s a shift in Chinese dominance in the market share. Furthermore, we are extremely concerned about data exfiltration from these Chinese us So if we go back, D. J. I was founded in 2000 and six and flooded the small US market around 2000 and 13 with high volume manufacturing and aggressive discount schemes in 2015 North America’s largest consumer drone manufacturer, Three D Robotics employed more than 350 people. As of today, three D Robotics market shares 1.5% and employs approximately 110 people, which is less than one third of those they had in the company’s workforce in 2015. Within the United States small US industrial base, there’s high turnover as well as market consolidation. Approximately 67% of U. S startups have been sold since larger U. S companies are buying smaller ones with potential. Some prime examples of this include Air Environments, acquisition of Pulse Aerospace and Fleer Systems acquisition of our EON Labs. Given the increased competition and consolidation startups such as lily and air wear, both US companies are running out of financial resource is other. Smaller companies, such as GoPro’s Karma and Parent S A, which is a French company, are unable to compete and are exactly are exiting the drone market altogether. So the three challenges leading to this one is the cost imposing regulations we have in the US This includes the cost to develop and validate airworthiness up train certifications, have trained pilots and to meet all the U s standards for US operations. Also, because d. J I has a very established market share, they can incrementally improve what they have. However, the price of entry is very significant for a new start up first to establish capability field and then continue to invest in that capability as well as toe advertise and to get a customer base that is loyal to them. We also have this rapid turn of technology and what we’re seeing is that D. J. I has the financial means being supported by the Chinese government to continue that rapid turnover of technology and being able to keep up with cutting edge in in evasions. So we need a robust U. S market, Um, that we have us developed and manufactured us participating in to meet both the commercial as well as the defense demands. We must work together. That’s government, industry, financial, community, regulatory, community toe, identify a path forward. We are seeing legislation that is imposing some changes on us through Section 848 of F Y 20 National Defense Authorization Act or India. Congress set clear rules around foreign produced us as well as the types of critical US components that may be procured and operated so specifically, the Department of Defense may not operate, enter into or renew a contract for the procurement of US or any related services and equipment that are manufactured in a covered foreign country or by an entity domiciled in a covered foreign country. Now this term covered foreign country, most notably includes the People’s Republic of China. So what is d O. D done? We have a small blue US program that represents a significant first step towards building a robust and trusted US domestic industrial base that really will ensure sustained delivery of highly capable secure us to the warfighters that depend on it. Our blue small US program is the culmination of 18 months of work by the Army and the Defense Innovation Unit to tailor the best technology from U. S and allied companies to develop inexpensive, small US defined as Group One and two US, which are under £55 for the warfighter. Due to the work of the blue small US program, we’re proud to announce the availability of the following five U. S. Manufactured drones that provide trusted, secure, small US options to federal, state and local governments through the General Services Administration, or GS, a catalog later this month. The first is all TV in M 4 40 c. Secondly, Parrot A Nafi Yusa, Third Sky Ideo X 2/4 Teal, Golden Eagle and fifth Vantage Robotics Vesper. My team will continue to work with the D. O D research and engineering team and our industry partners on future blue small US projects, as well as programs to support the development of larger and more technologically capable systems that D, O. D. And our nation require to remain competitive and outpaced our competitors in this space. So we have had presidential determinations for small US signed out by President Trump in 2019 which allows D. O. D to make investments in small US industrial based companies by using the Defense Production Act Title three Authorities 21 sustained critical production to commercialize R and D investments and three scale emerging technologies. As part of the national response to Cove in 19 and to support the domestic small US industrial base, the department awarded $13.4 million in deep a title three funded contracts to the following five companies. Air map based in Santa Monica, California Motile Ai in San Diego, California Sky Idea in Redwood City, California Graffiti enterprises out of Somerset, New Jersey, and Obsidian Sensors in San Diego. So before closing, I just like to comment on one of the ways that our department is looking at investing in this defense industrial base segment. We have a program called Trusted Capital, where we’re developing an ecosystem and Elektronik marketplace to bring together key, small, innovative companies with the capital market providers. Um, in order to invest in the ecosystem. We had a drone venture day back in November 2019 we had 39 U. S companies, 12 trusted capital providers, and we’re building on that activity to make sure that we have both a safe and resilient industrial base for small US US technologies really have incredible promise and potential to not Onley provide great economic benefit for the American people, but also toe enhance the safety and security of our nation. Once again, we need a strong, resilient, secure domestic U. S manufacturing base to make sure that America leads in this critical field. So with that, I’ll turn it back to you, Laura. Thank you. thank you under Secretary Lord and I just have one question for you because I really wanna thank you for your very thorough remarks. It’s clear that the Defense Department is absolutely leading in this drone issue and looking to develop a US based market. So federal agencies have have raised red flags regarding Chinese made drones, but state and local agencies continue to use them their budgets or smaller than the federal government’s. So what advice would you give to state and local procurement specialist regarding purchasing drones, particularly when they have smaller budgets than the federal government? Are absolutely, Ah, few things. One state and local governments can come to our industrial policy team within acquisition and sustainment in D. O D. And use us as a help desk for this. They will point you to the correct people. But secondly, we will now have these small, safe to use drones on the G s, a list which is much, much easier for them to use. I would very much like to continue what our team is done in terms of using industry associations, different groups toe help, listen to problems out there and deliver solutions. So I’m going to task my team after today to find out what is the most effective, speedy way to get to these local and state government officials who do have the procurement responsibility so they can most efficiently and effectively use the taxpayer dollars, Thank you very much. So at this point, I will invite the Panelists come to come on and to turn their cameras on and under. Secretary Lord, you are welcome to turn your camera off. And again, thank you for your comments and and the valuable information. Thank you. All right. Turning now, Thio the Panelists Let’s let’s dive into some of the technology that’s available the security risks and what state and local agencies conduce. Oh, in the alternative S o J v. I’m going to start with you. Could you describe to us what current technology is available in the in drones and what can we expect over the next five years? So, Laura, thank you for the question. The drone technology right now is really exploding. If you look at the capabilities that air fielded currently on D J AI drones and across the market, um, the optics are absolutely stellar, and their payloads are growing mawr and Mawr larger and more effective, as is the battery life. And you’re looking at battery life in excess of 30 minutes right now to provide some really phenomenal capabilities. And these optics that we’re talking about on cameras that can capture high quality, uh, footage and the zoom capability is on the exceeds Oftentimes 30 times optical. And then when you go into the digital aspects, you get upto a zoom capability of 180 times. You couple that was seen stabilization, and the pictures that are coming out of these drones were just phenomenal. They actually are of such a quality. They allow facial recognition. The Communist Party of China is the master of this technology. They’ve got it employed across their nation. While we don’t really know the fundamental aspect of those systems, we believe that they’re on a par with what is being fielded here in the States, if not a little bit better. Last year, a company money called ClearView in public, and they have the capability to take a cell phone photograph that you take right now and actually capture the image of someone in the background and identify the name of that individual in less than half a second, using a database A that goes across social media fielding through a I looking at a billion or more photographs and coming up with the right i d. So if you look at that, it allows governments to come in and actually see who is in what crowd and and make some really positive or, uh, somewhat detrimental implications with regard. Thio personal security the capabilities beyond or are really hard to fathom for many Americans. But you’re you’re starting to CRF based payloads that have a WiFi tracking capabilities and the ability to actually capture those networks. Onda penetrate them. And when you do that, you start to be able to steal secrets not just military secrets, but that crack in the corporations and then law enforcement agencies to feel for their secrets with miniaturization. The capabilities you’re now seeing on large drones will actually migrate and the medium size and on down into small drones over the next five years, and it will be eye watering what we see over the next 10. So on that Brendan, can you talk a little bit about how well does the U. S. Market compete with those capabilities. And what do you think is gonna be on the technological horizon for small drones? Right. Thanks, Laura. So if we step back, I think you can map the evolution of the drone industry into three broad phases. The first was the age of toys. That’s how most of the small drones began his toys that you flew in your backyard. They were radio control. D d I and other manufacturers pioneered manually define devices. It were really pieces of hardware, and they represented notable advances. But they still required expert pilots to fly. They were easy to crash on. Do you need a sophisticated user base toe do any type of commercially valuable work? And right now, roughly companies in public safety agencies been roughly 80% of their budgets on the salaries of pilots and training. I know that because I oversaw one of the largest public safety programs in the world at the U. S. Department of Justice. So what’s interesting is that we’re now seeing a shift into this third face. This a seismic shift. It’s the transition from manually flowing devices to software defined devices that are sleek and elegant and intuitive and intensely capable. These air devices, they’re built from the ground up to fly themselves, and they also built from the ground up for security, which is something else that we didn’t see in that second phase that were manually defined devices. The best analogy I can give is to think back to the Nokia flip phone. I’m probably almost all of us listening usedto have a Nokia phone in our pocket. They worked pretty well at the time. I remember being very happy with it until I saw the Apple iPhone for the first time. And when you pick that up, it’s this incredibly intuitive, capable, software defined experience. It’s no accident that Nokia was a foreign company producing cheap commodity hardware, and Apple was an American company, a software company that built hardware to accentuate the software, not the other way around. We’re seeing that same shift play out in the drone industry around the world where now you have new solutions and Scotty was in the leading next year. But there are others new solutions that are again built from the ground up for autonomy and security, and those were the solutions that will define the future of unmanned flight and and make drones much more capable taking them from tools what they are today to teammates. Um, that’s happening already around the world, Art. Why do you think Chinese made drones air so dominant? Alright, I believe you’re still on mute. Please. I’ll give you multiple reasons. Sorry about that. First of all, I would like to thank the Heritage Foundation for inviting me and particularly the talk by under Secretary Lord, Uh, it would’ve been nice toe have that access when I’m still with the police department. But I’m still doing that work in my reserve capacity. So maybe we can trade phone numbers of communication and we can get some of that information to some of the state and locals. So I’m going to give you some of a little history. Uh, so I started looking into us systems for the police department. Probably back in 2011. 2000 and 12. Back then, you had hardly anything about remember going down the way you had to find out. What was available is you go to the trade shoe shows like by a U. V S I or speak to other law enforcement agencies. So back in 2011 12 Miami Dade was one of the first law enforcement agencies to make the foray into it. So myself and one of my other officers went down there toe look at their program and how it was operating. Uh, back then, to the climate was such that was almost impossible to be able to get a co ato operate a drone you know, for any usable way for law enforcement. And I will say, since that period of time, everything eased up from the federal regulatory standpoint in terms, using a drone where now it is usable. But getting back down to Florida, I looked at their system one, They were still on a kind of a test koa before they could actually prove that they could use this thing, and it was like a fun. They used to call it the flying vacuum cleaner. This thing was huge. It was noisy. Wait a lot. It was not maneuverable, and it just wasn’t usable for most law enforcement of first responder applications. So what happened then? The especially the Chinese had been using US systems for commercial applications and they were far ahead of a lot of what we had from a commercial standpoint, technologically. So they came to the U. S. And they offered the first responders with I had to say it a very good product. It was inexpensive. It was readily available. It was easy to operate. They had a good marketing campaign and distribution campaign. You could go to your local, you know, J and R, whatever your local store was, pick it up And, you know recently that have been provided as part of the marketing campaign to give free US systems first responders for Cove in response and and their customer service was phenomenal. Uh, so with law enforcement having the ability thio purchase system, that was more expensive, that the military is testing versus something that was easily accessible that actually could meet all their immediate needs, that was the way they went that way was affordable, easy to use. And it was grateful. Enforcement applications so affordable, easy to use. That’s tough to compete with. Brendan, can you talk a little bit about why it’s been difficult for US companies to compete in the past? Sure, so a couple of factors come to mind. And the first is that as a variety of U. S. Government officials have made clear over the years, US companies in the past were competing with one hand tied behind their back. U. S companies have always welcome competition. Um, certainly Studio and other members, that message on the street welcome competition. That’s what we want. But our predecessors that stepped into the ring that is the marketplace expected a fair fight, and they didn’t find it because the Chinese government was committed. Do not plane fare to not playing by the rules. And Miss Lord, others have discussed how, in the past the Chinese government was able to sponsor price dumping. I’m speaking here with my hat on is the former U. S. Government official as well as a cybersecurity professor. So the Chinese government, essentially working with companies to lower the prices on the market? This is again, according to the U. S. Government, which harmed predecessor companies here in the United States and in the second reason is is that in the past, the message run in the street focused primarily on beating Chinese incumbents at their own game producing commodity hardware products that didn’t go well for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that the Chinese government, according to this month’s edition of the Harvard Business Review, has invested billions of dollars in 20 years and making Shin Jin China a global hub for the manufacturing of components useful for both phones, browns and other forms of microelectronics. There is nothing like that in the United States, which gives companies based in China, and it’s no surprise that most of the drone companies in China are based in Shenzhen. It gives them an advantage in the hardware game. But what we’re now seeing is a shift America’s core confidence. He has always been in and around software. And as I mentioned earlier, that is the paradigm that will define the future of the marketplace that already is today. And it will certainly enable new capabilities. Andi, I think, uniquely benefit the United States and the domestic industry in a way that was very different from the industry the past. It was even focused on making hardware components, trying to play the same game. Thank you so one issue that people raise users raise for using a Chinese drone is a concern that data is going to be shared with the Chinese corporation and therefore, in turn, the Chinese government. If you look at DJ’s fact sheet, for example, it talks about if a user voluntarily shares data with D. J I. It’s stored in the U. S. And that any flight data the U S customers choose to share with D J I, it’s stored on a secure cloud located in the U. S. For example, Amazon, um, and Alibaba, which were certified iso compliant. Or do you think, does this alleviate data sharing concerns, or are there still concerns to be had about data sharing? Of course, every security measure you take or security assurance you take is provides a little bit of help. But by no means does that give you assurances. So first of all, like it, you know, I wanna, you know, single on any single company. But for example, D. J. I just to be able to operate that you’re signing and then user agreement, and immediately off the bat, you’re sharing a certain amount of your information. You’re agreeing to, uh right away and says up front of the end user agreement that you have to do to operate it. Fine. Anything that you know is an open network is gonna be open to, uh, you know, hacking to security threats on board for a local public service agents, you have to say, first of all, my protect myself the best way I can. Okay, It’s the best product for you at that time, but is it gonna touch my server? Okay. Assume anything that you’re gonna touch your server. Whether they’re saying it’s secure or not, you’re at risk to, uh any imagery that you take is tagged with GPS coordinates. So something taking that you’re flying that you think is benign. Suddenly you know who else knows where you’re at and whose recording it. So if I’m in a hostage negotiating system and even if it’s not touching my server and I’m having an open broadcast to look at my film, who has access to that or protest? Hey, somebody is observing where law enforcement is staged for security reasons. Who else can pull and any of your feeds whether it’s on your server or not? The other thing is to with any network they can download cookies. You have persistent cookies that were there and could be hidden. Come out at any time you have to worry about. Okay, It’s not touching my network. But now I want to do a security upgrade. You know, if you will get your phone and well, you could have GPS Modoff, but will constantly say every time you use a nap Hey can do Will you be willing to turn your GPS on for this? And then as soon as you do that, people have access to it. So these roll little hidden things that you have to be concerned on even if you think you have a secure network. And the bottom line is any Chinese company eyes bound by the 2017 Chinese intelligent agreement which requires them to provide any intelligence deemed necessary by the Chinese government. So they may try to do their best to secure. But if a you know, totalitarian government suddenly decides I need that information, they will be powerless. Basically. Thio, stop it. Uh, the other thing is to what other You know. Companies are providing, uh, components into that device. So, as NYPD, we I personally use a device that was a DJ I product. It was more for detection. And to be able to operate it, we needed to actually use the wa way sim card when we tried using a Verizon Or, uh, you know, a T and T sim card had never seemed to work. So what other components are in there that you believe your your system vulnerable to some kind of cyber attack or pulling out information. So question for for Brendan and also then JV. So people don’t worry too much about cybersecurity. Unfortunately, until their hats. So is it realistic to think the drone operators will go through the steps to turn off sharing settings each time they fly a drone? And I’m wondering about emergency situations where drone pilots have to get the devices up into their very quickly. How long does it take to go through these steps to avoid sharing data? And is the user still vulnerable? Right, That’s a great question. And to answer it, let me put on my profess Oriole had I teach cybersecurity law and policy at George Washington Law School, Um, in addition to serving in a variety of cyber security role. So the first thing I would say is that completely disconnecting any device that’s meant to be connected to the Internet is inherently difficult, oftentimes impossible. If a device is built to be connected to the Internet, that’s how it works fast and in cybersecurity. You can’t bolt it on cyber cyber devices to be secure. They have to be built from the ground up for security. And whenever you disconnect a device from the Internet, especially device that’s made to be connected to the Internet, you lose. Ah, lot of the richness and the utility. You may also lose a lot of safety features. So if you have a device, whether it’s a telephone or a toaster or a Testa, that is meant to be connected to the Internet, to get real time maps to get traffic information. And by the way, all of those apply in the airspace, not just on the ground. Imagine what you’re gonna lack if you shut that off. If you close that pipe, you’re not gonna have awareness. You’re gonna be flying blind in a very literal way, but more particularly, there are sort of three levels of risk that we could jump through really quickly here maybe. And And that the first is that when you think you have air gapped the device, you may not have actually done so, um, Air Gap. Any device is inherently tricky. It takes an extraordinary amount of reverses to pull off and often doesn’t work. That’s especially the case again, according to the U. S government, Um, and with my Professor Auriol had on, if you’re using a product by a vendor that cannot be trusted, and in this case, the issue is the Chinese government issue isn’t really about Chinese companies. It’s really about the boogeyman at the end of the rainbow holding the rope. And that is the Chinese government. With those laws that are talked about their to others, it requires Chinese companies to comply with these laws. Those laws have rightly caused bipartisan concern in the Congress, um, in boardrooms across the world, Onda and also in the executive branch. And and the second reason I would say that there’s a risk from aircraft machines is is a mistake. It just takes one employee, one time, two connected device to the Internet, even to his or her personal mobile device. And then all bets are off. That device is no longer a graph in the third and most serious, probably category of risk that I’ve certainly seen first hand is in the form of software updates. So even if you had a device in pristine condition was not connected to the Internet, you were sure it was secure. That device is not meant to remain in spaces. It requires updates. You’re going to need Thio. Patch it. You’re going to want more features. But if devices truly air gapped, the only way to add features to update it is to trust the vendor writes the update. So there in lies the potential vulnerability ah, threat actor could and exploit is whenever you update that software and you must, um, that is an angle. That’s another opportunity for you to be exploited. Davey. Yeah, I just to follow in the Brendan’s comments there, uh, DHS put out a document last year on best practices on using drones, particularly those manufactured, uh, in China. And in order to follow those, it makes it basically unusable for the average person who’s out there on the street. The restrictions on using controllers and PCs connecting to the Internet is Brennan said. It only takes one. Missed. A quick and going through this checklist is almost Byzantine. Um, if you want to go and follow the idea that D. J. I, for example, I za secure and easy to use system, I recommend you go on YouTube and and follow a length of toe. Find Brendan Shulman’s testimony. He’s a senior D. J. I representative, and he testified in front of the British Parliament last year. And if you can find a yes or no answer in that eight minute testimony, you’re a better man or woman than I am, and I recommend that you go through. And if you walk away with anything other than a head scratcher, then then then, um, then you’re again doing well and let me go down the path that that Brendan did just for a second that this idea that you’ve got a trusted actor is one thing. But the Chinese government is anything but. There’s some great Americans working for D. J I here in the United States, but they work for a company that’s based in China as Brendan and Art. Both referenced law makes it mandatory for corporations based to share the data with that company that the company collects with the the Chinese Communist Party. And and their record is absolutely blight filled with being a bad actor. If you just look at how they’ve provided ships manufactured in China for the last five years. In 2000 and 18 Bloomberg came out with a study that basically a report that showed that the United States was going through a T s investigation a top secret investigation on a chip manufacturer named Super Micro who had built a chip that otherwise was great. And this company was probably a board and sound. But the Chinese Communist Party got ahold of that and put another very tiny chip inside of it that gave provided a back door of the Chinese government to come in and intrude in in, uh, systems that have been placed in government organizations like D. O. D. And corporations like Apple on, but allowed them access to directly into their servers. I’m gonna have Catherine throw up a video here for you, and I’ll talk over the top of it. There is no sound, but what the Chinese government does is markedly different than what we do in the United States and what our government does. This is a video taken by D. J. I drone over the top of a weaker a group of folks who have been basically, um, detained and are being moved by the Chinese Communist Party from one location on this train depot to another. And what they’re doing to the wingers is on the order of what we saw out of Nazi Germany in World War Two with the Jewish population. And you’re seeing them move those folks back around this this’ll country. This this, uh, Chinese Communist Party is unknown bad actor. If you look at the fidelity that’s offered in here and we’ll play this video one more time for you, you can actually see details on people’s hands and the likes where facial recognition and the ability to determine who people are track trace and then detain them if you so wish is there for the taking. So what you’re seeing is an extraordinary technology of a company that is based in China and what they’re doing with that that technology not just to d j I, potentially but to law enforcement agencies across the United States it’s something toe absolutely scour over. And if you if you’re not concerned with this kind of imagery being being a made available to that Communist Party and that images may be coming from your town and our F data and WiFi signals and the security details of your very own population, if you’re not concerned with that, then you need to think twice. Agreed. Yeah, the two things that video shows is one human rights violations and two incredible technology. Um, let’s turn now to focus on state and local agencies. So our question for you, if federal agencies have stopped using or acquiring Chinese made drones, should should state and local agencies follow suit and stop using them as well. Or is that even if usable? No, I think it is feasible. So every agency has to look at what their own needs are and what’s you know, readily available and what they can afford, what they can use. Uh, you know, But if a federal agency is skeptical and I know in 2017 you know, Department of the Army actually prohibited the use of the Chinese made drones, particularly D. J. You’ve got to save yourself. Why is that on? They can put in all sorts of security patches in to play so mhm, you know? Yeah. You have to say yourself. Do you have Ah, can you even handle that, uh, Chinese system? Do you have your own secure network? Can you protect that secure network? Will that us touch a secure network? Even if you have a separate network and you’re doing any kind of updates on your computer, Well, that computer that use just for this touch you a network, so yeah. No, I think state locals definitely need toe look introspectively. And say what? Um, I have the choices out there dio even if I don’t think there’s any concern they may be there is stuff that I think is not critical, whether it be infrastructure, uh, that you’re looking at it bridges and tunnels, uh, in New York City. We actually had in our power supply companies that we’re finding drones all over the place. So, yes, if there’s alternatives out there, uh, state locals need to look at the alternatives. So in speaking to a firefighter and a drone operator in Georgia, he said yes. We need to know what the risks are, and federal government, if you’re if you’re going to provide us that information and the risk also help provide possible solutions or point us to such solutions. So breaded in your time of DOJ. What was your experience with working with state and local law enforcement agencies regarding drones? And how can they most quickly and easily get Thio solutions right? Well, there’s no question first of all, that drones or just fundamentally extraordinary tools and that advanced not only the safety of the public but also the safety of Frontline personnel’s officers and state and local agencies and agents in federal agencies. Eso that’s that’s a critical tool agencies needed on my cart said. There are lots of other alternatives in the market today, both in the United States and now that countries that air meeting those needs integrate. 11 8. Before, when I was three, the Department of Justice I worked with an office in the Department of Justice, the Cops Office, the community oriented Policing Services Office. This is an office that is well known to many agencies out there, and we stood up the first of a kind national US working group art was actually on this and we got together. Chiefs of police and very senior law enforcement officials from across the country flew everybody to D. C on a regular basis and talk through these issues. Face to face walked through the needs in the community and also the risk people were facing talked about consensus solutions to work around them. And DOJ and dates actually provide grant money to state local agencies to help them get the absolute best technology. That’s also cybersecurity, and that’s an important factor. Both DOJ and DHS have restrictions on cybersecurity for any grants, including for drones. That’s important. That’s as it should be. But that’s a resource right now, in addition to the resource that Miss Lord share in the Defense Department that every state and local agency can use is those that grant money from DOJ and DHS to ensure you have the solutions you need that aren’t gonna put your networks at risk. So a question that came in from the audience, um, says the duty program needs to be more visible. Is there a benefit to working with the military installation? All three of you have military backgrounds, so, um J. B. Do you want to start with that question I can Laura making If you don’t already have a relationship with a your local base or installation, it’s kind of hard to go knocking on the door and find. Find that person who’s willing to talk to you. It may be best to go through a representative who gets you access and and makes that introduction for you. And, yeah, you’re gonna find extraordinary talent inside of D. O. D. They do know the ins and outs of these systems, but whether they’ll be able to help you with your individual security, that’s another matter entirely. Brendan, Um, any thoughts on that? Yeah, it’s I think it’s a very good question. Your first best bet is probably to call Miss Lords office and have that sort of top down access into the Department of Defense. But I think it’s an extraordinary thing that D. O. D. Is going to partner alongside our state and local agencies and help them way through these really difficult on Deacon fusing waters on their own, as well as provide the solutions that they’ve they’ve needed so again fantastic from from duty. But I would advise folks to reach out to the Pentagon for their initial call an art. What are your thoughts? So when I was in the police department also having a military background and continuing in the reserve capacity, I kind of acted as a liaison between kind of all the agencies that had kind of their foot in, you know, the door for us and county US programs. So we worked very closely with department Homeland Security. We worked with DOJ. We worked with the F a A and very closely with the military. So right now I’m actually working on a program with the police department on the military to actually kind of trained them on Bester class systems. So the D. O. D. Has been a phenomenal partner in this game and have actually proposed to my leadership on with the 75th Innovation Command that we actually almost act as a liaison to big, uh d o d big army to go to ST locals and give them this additional support and this information, you know, perf and D O. J and D hs and FAA has been phenomenal. But people that have the money and are the military, and they’re investing a lot on the future of both, you know, us technology and count us technology. All right, Thank you. So our time is wrapping up. I just want to go around the horn for any final comments or general thoughts. JV. I’ll start with you and then are followed by Brendan. Yeah, there’s some phenomenal technology out there and you want to use it for your department’s bu a sheriff or bu Ah ah, police agency in any city in the United States, thes air, phenomenal capabilities. And you want to start that integration if you haven’t already. The buyer beware. This is one of those areas where if you dip into this and you don’t go down the right path with regard your selection on who manufacturers that drone and where that data could potentially go, then you’re not shielding your people or your organization. Thanks, JB Art. So I just want to say there’s a lot of choices out. There are a lot more opening up. Uh, you know, I would also in poor that the Fed, where the DHS and DOJ actually released mawr reports on approved technologies improve systems, but also recommended. I did that when I was part of the perp program. There should be like federal training programs because the cost of operating is not just the acquisition of the U. S system itself. It’s also the maintenance. It’s the training. All these other little things really add up to make it prohibitive. So maybe if the federal government could come up with a U. S training program that helps state locals with getting their people, you know, one of seven certified understanding the Part 91 process for koalas, I think would also help going a long way to getting a unified approach across the country. Thank you, Art and Brendan. So I would just say that at the end of the day, everything comes down to trust. I think customers, both consumers, public entities and private companies have been conditioned over the years to use drones where they don’t even expect. Cybersecurity is a baseline, and something’s wrong with that equation. I think folks deserve more. They’re demanding mawr, and increasingly there are a lot of options that get you that both both here and some allied options as well as Miss Lord mentioned and at the end of the day, the only way to trust their product is to trust the entity they wrote the software and legal framework in which they operate. The way to do that is to use systems produced domestically and in allied countries that will get the trust that everyone has been waiting for but never found. Thank you, Brendan. So I’d like to thank all of our speakers for sharing their insights on the risks involved with Chinese made drones and think our audience for being with us today for this important conversation. And if you work on the hill at a think tank or just have questions, we encourage you to contact anyone of us here listed on the slide on the screen and continue the conversation. Um, just a reminder for the audience. This has been recorded, and it will be available at heritage dot org’s, along with the other webinar information, and immediately following this event, you’ll receive a survey that we hope you’ll complete so that we can bring ideas to you that you care about on. Bring them to the public square. So to see the events that we have coming up, also check out heritage dot org’s slash events and again, thank you and have a great day. Thank you