Secretary of the Army Christine Wormuth and Chief of Staff of the Army Gen. Randy A. George testify about the Army Department’s fiscal year 2025 budget before the Senate Appropriations Committee’s defense subcommittee, May 21, 2025.

Transcript

Good morning. The committee will come to order. Welcome back, Secretary Warmer. We appreciate your leadership of our nation’s army. And we look forward to discussing with you the army’s budget priorities for fiscal year 2025 and welcome General George to your first hearing before this subcommittee, I’m interested to hear your perspectives and we look forward to hearing from you. The fiscal year 2025 budget request for the Department of the Army is 100 and $80.3 billion excluding funds for Mil Con, which is the same level as the enacted number for fiscal year 2024 fiscal 24. Once again. Uh and unfortunately, unsurprisingly began under a continuing resolution which ended up lasting for a full six months. Our entire military is affected by CRS but coupled with a months long delay in enacting the national security supplemental, the army was doubly affected because you were unable to replace weapons systems. You donated to Ukraine with modern capabilities. I’m glad that Congress finally got its act together and passed the National Security supplemental but just like the regular appropriations bill, it was needlessly delayed by many months. Worldwide challenges and threats are constantly evolving. And as we discussed last year, the army’s response to the increasingly complex battlefield of the future is to transform into the army of 2030. This transformation includes investments in people. The reorganization of forces, the development of new equipment and the adoption of new concepts to defeat adversaries. We can best help the army on its path to modernization through the timely enactment of a defense appropriations bill for fiscal year 2025. 1 time appropriations provide the resource predictability on time. Excuse me, on time, appropriations provide the resource predictability that enable the army to execute training and operational plans effectively for the entire fiscal year. I look forward to working with Senator Murray and Collins and of course, the real chairman, Senator Tester uh uh to position us for success to getting a budget passed on time. Once again, I want to thank each of you for your service to our country before you make your opening statements. I’ll turn it over to the vice chair, Senator Collins for her remarks. Thank you very much, Chairman Shots and welcome to your new role on this uh subcommittee secretary warmer. It’s, it’s great to see you again. General George, as this is your first time testifying before our subcommittee’s for your service and your leadership. One of my chief concerns for the army this year remains the same as it was last year and that is recruiting madam secretary. I commend you and the chief for your steadfast refusal to compromise on recruiting standards. And I understand from your written testimony that the results of the future soldier prep course continued to be promising. Nevertheless, the army either missed its recruiting objectives or lowered them in three of the last five years. The proposed active duty and strength represents the smallest active duty army since the start of the volunteer force in 1973. It is substantially less than the army’s goal of 470,000 soldiers. By the year 2029 I look forward to hearing how the army is updating its recruiting approach and what resources are included in your budget request to recruit enough qualified men and, and women. Well, the national security strategy, primary focus is competition with China army soldiers along with our sailors and marines are in harm’s way today in the Middle East. It is also the army more than any other service that is providing the lion’s share of equipment and training to help Ukraine’s own army defeat and defend against Russia’s brutal invasion. I would ask our witnesses to clearly articulate how the army’s proposed modernization efforts and force structure changes will improve the army’s posture to address these growing threats. In particular. I’m interested in hearing more about how you plan to integrate robotic and unmanned systems into your future formations using platforms like the robotic combat vehicle. A very innovative company in Maine. I’m pleased to say how and how is contributing to this critical technology. General George counter drone technology is also at the top of your unfunded priorities list. I hope you will share with us in greater detail, your prior prioritization of those capabilities. Since I share your view on their importance. The recently passed supplemental bill included more than $380 million for our counter drone systems. None of which I would know was included in the original supplemental request. So I’m glad that working with Chairman Murray and Chairman Tester, um that we have been able to address that critical need. It’s important as we deal with the attacks against Israel and against our forces that are in harm’s way from the threats posed by Iran and its proxies. Let me give you one illustration of why these investments are so important. The son of one of the most experienced workers at an armament plant in Saco Maine was deployed with the army in the Middle East after October 7th. His army unit was protected from these inbound drones by the very weapon systems built in Sao. So we must never forget that there are real lives at stake and that is why it’s so critical that we continue to modernize and invest in the defense industrial base since we’ve seen firsthand, that war has changed dramatically. Finally, I would ask both of our witnesses to provide an update on how this budget request builds upon the progress from the fiscal year 24 supplemental to expand munition production and strengthen our industrial base. We’ve made a lot of good progress but there’s still much work to be done. I look forward to hearing your testimony. Thank you for being here. Thank you, Vice Chair Collins Secretary Warmath. Please proceed with your testimony. Good morning, Senator Schatz, Vice Chair Collins, distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for your continued support of our soldiers, army, civilians and their families. General George and I appear before you today at a moment of profound transformation for the United States army. We’re transforming our capabilities, our force structure and our recruiting enterprise to ensure the army is ready and able to defeat evolving threats, keep pace with technology and attract the very best talent. As we pursue this transformation, we’re also taking care of our people ensuring that our soldiers and families have the quality of life that they deserve to sustain our readiness now and in the future, this is my fourth year in front of this committee. And like last year, the army’s 25 budget continues to support the most ambitious modernization effort the army has undertaken in more than 40 years. We’re making significant progress. I’m pleased to report in transforming our capabilities by staying consistent in our goals and meeting key milestones for development and fielding the next generation squad weapon integrated battle command system, midrange capability and precision strike missile are just some examples of the critical new systems that we’ve recently delivered. As we bring these new systems into our inventory. We’re also transforming our force structure to meet the priorities of the national defense strategy. We’re building out new formations such as our five multi domain task forces that are equipped with the capabilities. We need to conduct large scale combat operations against technologically advanced military powers and we’re shrinking excess force structure so that the units we have are manned and ready. While these four structured decisions bring down authorized troop levels by about 24,000 spaces. Our goal is to increase our authorized end strength to 470,000 by the year of fiscal fiscal year 2029. To meet that goal, General George and I and the whole army team are working around the clock to overcome our recruiting challenges and we’re making solid progress building on successful initiatives like the future soldier prep course, we’re fundamentally transforming our recruiting enterprise to better compete in the 21st century job market. Most significantly, we are redesigning our recruiting workforce by creating new permanent specialized recruiters for both enlisted soldiers and warrant officers. And actually the assessment and selection of the first class of warrant officers focused on recruiting is finished and they will be going out into the field later this summer. But while we transform, we can’t lose sight of taking care of our soldiers and families. A key part of this responsibility is providing safe high quality housing and barracks. So over the next five years, the army will invest on average $2.1 billion every year in the construction sustainment restoration and modern of barracks for unaccompanied soldiers. This investment will fund barracks sustainment at 100% for the first time in years. And we are leveraging the expertise of the army Corps of engineers to stabilize project costs and we’re hiring civilian barracks managers so that our soldiers can focus on war fighting responsibilities, physically and emotionally healthy soldiers are more resilient, higher performing and less likely to engage in harmful behaviors to build resilient soldiers. We’re expanding our holistic health and fitness program to 71 active component brigades investing in financial counseling services to ensure that our soldiers know how to manage their money and we’re encouraging programs in our divisions that focus on soldier well-being. Our goal has been and remains building cohesive teams that can fight and win throughout this transformation which is required given the very dangerous world in which we live. We’re continuing to provide combatant commands with trained and ready formations. This year’s budget seeks $1.5 billion for activities tied to the Pacific Deterrence initiative. And we’ve asked for $460 million for operation Pacific pathways. Our series of exercises focused on strengthening deterrence and interoperability with partners in the Indo Pacific in Europe. Our troops are demonstrating our commitment to deterring Russian aggression. As you said, Vice Chairman Collins, the army is leading the effort to support Ukraine from training over 17,000 Ukrainian troops to providing hundreds of vehicles, weapons systems and millions of munitions. And in the Middle East, our soldiers are mission focused and have been hard at work building the floating pier to deliver more humanitarian aid in Gaza, the chief and I appreciate the recently passed supplemental appropriations bill that will maintain our critical support to Ukraine, support partners in Asia and the Middle East and invest in our own readiness. And we strongly urge going forward the passing of on time annual appropriation bills that will maintain our readiness in this volatile time with your support. We’ll continue to take care of our people and sustain the army’s transformation that will keep us the best army in the world. I’m proud of all that our soldiers and army civilians are doing and look forward to your questions this morning. Thank you very much, Secretary Warmth General George. Please proceed. Thank you, Senator Schatz, Vice Chair Collins, distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to talk with you today about our army. The world is more volatile today than I’ve seen it in my 36 year career. And there is clear cooperation between adversaries than we’ve seen in a while. A spark in any region could have global impacts. Meanwhile, the character of war is changing rapidly which we see from what is happening on the battlefields in Ukraine and the Middle East, our army is as important to the joint force as it has ever been. We must deter war everywhere and be ready to respond anywhere. So we are focused on providing the best army with the budget. We are given our soldiers deserve it. Our joint teammates deserve it and our nation deserves it. And that means making some tough decisions and finding ways to get better every day. As the secretary already highlighted our planned investments reflected in our FY 25 budget will help our army win the future fight and ensure that our soldiers and their families remain ready and resilient across the army. We are learning from global events and continuously transforming how we operate, how we train and how we equip. And I’d like to highlight a handful of things. We’re learning that designs for things like unmanned systems must be modular, adaptable and software defined. We are working to get relevant technology into the hands of soldiers immediately. We are learning that counter unmanned systems must evolve as the threat does to protect our formations and critical infrastructure. We’re also moving on out on that while being mindful of the cost curve, we need cheaper solutions. We are learning that in some cases the right tech already exists to support transformation. For instance, the tech exists to make our command and control nodes more mobile, lower signature and more effective. We are fixing our network and we are building our magazine, depth and modernizing our organic industrial base because we know that wars never end as quickly as we hope they take a lot of ammo. We are also transforming how we recruit, ensuring that we have the right talent and the right tech and that we are getting the word out about how our army is a great place to serve because of our mission and our people. Finally, we are also looking at where we need to reimagine our processes and where we can afford to stop doing things that don’t support our war fighting mission. We’re building cohesive teams. I’m proud of what our soldiers are doing around the world to help defend our country. Thank you all for your support and we look forward to your questions. Thank you very much. Uh, General George, uh Secretary Warm. Uh, last year you visited Schofield Barracks on Oahu and after touring where soldiers live, you said to the press. And I quote, I wasn’t happy with what I saw frankly. Those are the kinds of things that I want us to get after. Tell me what you saw and tell me what you’re doing about it. Thank you, Senator Schatz. Um, I’ve seen a lot of barracks over the last, uh three plus years. So, um, I’m not sure if I’ll remember exactly what I saw at Schofield, but what I’ve seen and what I probably saw there was struggles with, you know, water on the floor humidity. I remember meeting one soldier in his barracks room and it looked like he had just stepped out of the shower in his bathroom. But in fact, the water was, you know, seeping through the floor because of issues with the foundation. And as, you know, well, the, uh, some of the barracks at Schofield are pretty old and so what we’re doing is investing $2.1 million a year in barracks, whether it’s, you know, construction for new barracks, whether it’s renovating barracks, we already have or sustaining barracks at 100% which is something we have not done in a long time. And I think, uh all of that together will help us significantly decrease the, the amount in our inventory of barracks that are kind of at an unacceptable condition. I will be honest with you, you know, we have a huge inventory of barracks and we’re going to, you know, e even with all of that money that we’re investing, we’re, we really need to invest more in barracks. But everything, you know, we’ve got to figure out where that incremental dollar goes. But I think this will do a lot. So the, the 2 billion a year at 100%. Right. So let me, let me try to understand this. This is FSRM money. Yes. Ok. Not milk on. Well, the 2.1 billion is the total. There is Milton, there is FSRM. That’s a total. I got it, but within that it, we are sustaining at 100% as opposed to 85% which is what we’ve typically and how does that work on your, uh, I, I’m sure you have a sort of wedge analysis to get to where you wanna go. Um How many years of that level of investment would get us to something that you would consider acceptable?

I think it’s gonna take us several years Senator because, you know, as you know, property just depreciates continuously over time. So the 100% sustainment will help slow that, you know, steady decrease in quality. But we are going to have to make these kinds of investments for multiple years. Sorry to interrupt. Could you get us some fidelity on uh you know, you have, you have an inflation number that you now have to work with and then you have the normal depreciation and then you, you know, so, so um I’m in your answer is several years, but I’d like to know if it’s 4.5 or 6.5 or 2.5 because I think the committee needs to know in case there is a desire to spend more on this kind of thing, you know, what would get us um to a better baseline, we can get that for you. Thank you very much. Uh General George. Um I have been a fan of Pacific pathways for a very, very long time. I want to give you a couple of examples of how cost-effective it is. Of course, you know this, but this is really for staff um $18 million. In 2023 the army built partner capacity in the Philippines to exercise Bacca. In 2019, the army spent $823,000 in Palau conducting joint homeland defense drills, community health outreach and repairing infrastructure. Can you just, you know, tell the public, tell the committee uh about the cost effectiveness of Pacific pathways I’ve never seen, especially in this committee, something so inexpensive and high impact. Sure. Yeah, your mic’s not on um pathways is is incredibly effective um for us out in the, in the Pacific. I mean, right now, what user PAC is doing in the Philippines is they basically are taking an exportable training package um that’s out there and helping to, to train those formations. We have the same thing in reverse when we have all of our partners and allies that are coming to um to Hawaii to train, which is very effective for our relationships that are out there in the Pacific. But all of those exercises I would say are building our interoperability. Um They’re building trust with our partners and allies um that are out there and there, and they’re building real capability, we’re also using them um just to your cost effectiveness to help us transform. I mean, some of the things that we’re doing out there right now with, uh, with 25th ID, that’s been out there using unmanned systems, um to deliver ammunition. So use it on the logistics side. So, um, we could go on a long time about what, what the impact we think that that’s having out there. Uh Two thoughts. First of all, the soldiers also love it, they love it. Um, and that’s not a trivial aspect of this program. Um The other thing is if you can get us um some data on how much more you could do with more resources, that would be very helpful. Vice Chair Collins, thank you, Mr. Chairman Secretary. We we discussed just recently in my office, the horrific mass shooting that occurred last October 25th in the state of Maine, the worst mass shooting in our state’s history in which 18 individuals died and another 13 were injured. The killer Robert card was a sergeant first class in the US Army Reserve. The Governor of Maine has established an independent commission that has already issued an interim report and that report includes several very troubling findings about missed opportunities to prevent this tragedy. So I want to ensure that we’re taking every action necessary to try to lessen or prevent the chances of such a tragedy ever happening again. Secretary Austin has committed to working with me in drafting legislation that would require our military services to report to the appropriate authorities when a service member poses a threat to him or herself or to others while protecting the second Amendment rights of our service members. But to draft the most effective legislation, I very much need the results of the review that the Army Reserve has undertaken as well as the investigation that I requested from the inspector general. Originally, the Army Reserves administrative review was supposed to be completed by mid-January and we expected to have the IGs report by the end of February. Could you please update me on when we can expect those two critical reports?

Certainly. And Senator, first of all, I would say, you know, my heart goes out to all of the families in Maine that, that lost people and that were affected by the terrible shooting. It was truly tragic. Um I, you will be able to expect, I think the Army Reserve investigation in a couple more weeks. It has been as we talked about very comprehension of there are over, I think 3000 pages of interviews with witnesses and documents that they’ve collected, which is partly why it’s taken so long, but it should be done in a couple more weeks. And then I think the, the separate review being done by our army inspector General will follow shortly after that. Thank you. I look forward to working with you on the legislation and would love to have your commitment for that as well. We, we look forward to working with you on your legislation. Thank you General George. There are those who are against assistance to Ukraine, in particular, that contend that our defense industrial base cannot build enough air defense patriots, for example, or artillery grounds to support Ukraine and Israel while also meeting the army’s own requirements for these systems, even after the, the substantial investment from the supplemental. And I’m a very strong supporter of assisting both Ukraine and Israel. The implication of this line of argument is that we should end our security assistance to Ukraine because we can’t take care of our own army’s needs as well. So let me ask you directly, can the army and our allies effectively manage the risks to the army’s munition stockpiles, particularly for air defense and artillery while also providing assistance to Ukraine and Israel. Senator. I, I think we can. Um and I do wanna say thanks on the, on the supplemental. I think obviously the most important thing for us is on time funding so we can get things and you know, we struggle a little bit with that um over this last year and we are, what we need to do is, is what we’re on the path to do is also continuing to uh invest in our organic industrial base. Um And we can get examples uh for like 155 where we’re producing a little over 30,000 rounds a month and by the beginning of, of 26 we’ll be producing over 100,000 rounds a month. So that’s what we need to do. We need to continue to invest in that um In addition to what we’re supplying for our um you know, to those efforts. Thank you, Senator Moran, chairman. Thank you. Uh Thank you, ranking member, vice chairman, uh secretary uh General George. Welcome. Uh welcome to your debut uh uh hearing in the appropriations process. Last October, the underst announced a digital engineering strategy to strategy to optimize sustainment across the services. I understand the army just this morning signed a policy to help accelerate the adoption of digital engineering. My view is that these tools are incredibly important for designing and building new platforms and sustaining existing systems. Secretary, can you tell the committee a little bit more about the forthcoming policy and how the army’s previous digital engineering work informs the adoption of this capability. Thank you, Senator Moran. It’s good to see you and we are uh excited about our new digital engineering policy. You basically, what we’re trying to do is make it easier for the army to adopt digital engineering approaches more broadly at scale across the army. Um You know, this is the kind of work that allows us to do modeling and simulation and explore engineering challenges using using computer simulations which is more efficient and less costly. So for example, our um program to replace the Bradley fighting vehicle, the XM 30 program is incorporating digital engineering in its um development work and the policy has a number of different components but, but its broad goal is to help us use that important uh approach more broadly so that we can be more effective in our modernization programs. Uh Thank you for that answer. Uh General George, um I would guess that uh Senator from Connecticut, Senator Murphy will ask you about uh the future long range assault aircraft and its safety. Uh I want to inform you that I support the decision to award Bell Textron on the contract for Flora. This is an aircraft that maneuvers like a helicopter and vertical flight flies twice as far and twice as fast as current helicopters. All of this needs to be done with a safe piece of equipment. The aircraft competitively selected by the army was the only one that fully met those requirements and it was that was validated by the Gao. Would you highlight for the committee the importance of speed and maneuverability this aircraft provides as well as how the army plans to leverage its open system architecture. Yes, Senator, I mean, we’re um it can’t come fast enough. Um for me. Um So I think this is gonna be uh a game changing, you know, for the, for this aircraft just for what you talked about the range, it’s gonna have the speed it’s gonna have. And then with open architecture, what we can do um with manned unmanned teaming um launch effects all the other things um that are gonna come with this. So I think it’s, it’s gonna increase our capabilities. Uh Thank you. Um Secretary uh ta A highlighted several uh capabilities requiring significant investments at a time in which the army budget probably for this fiscal year represents about FY 22 levels. I hear that there’s a potential of establishment of new structures or a new structure like a drone branch or a permanent ABC T in Poland, would the simultaneous establishment of additional units not planned for in previous our trucks be disruptive to the army’s current plans to modernize. Thank you, Senator. I think it would be challenging to, to generate, for example, a whole new armored brigade combat team, you know, given the recruiting challenges that we’re working through and, and like I said, I want to emphasize that we are, I think um gonna make our recruiting goal this year but, but build, you know, we have not built into our current TA A plans, uh a a uh an intention to build a new armored brigade combat team. Instead, we are looking at things like the counter UAs battery that would eventually come to Fort Riley, to the maneuver sho a uh battalions and the and the multi domain task forces. So at this time, we are not looking at building a new armored brigade combat team and I think we want to focus on the integrated air and missile defense formations that are gonna be so important for large scale conflict against an advanced competitor. You have established your priorities and you believe in those priorities. Is that what you’re telling me?

I do and I mean, we, we do, we review our four structure every year. So we certainly want to adjust to conditions and adjust, you know, as the strategy may require us. But right now, I think we believe that we’re um we’re what we’ve built in, in terms of new formations are what’s right for the army right now?

Thank you very much. Can I, can I make a comment just on the one?

It didn’t come up. I know we’re a little over but um on the um we, we appreciate the interest for example, on drones. And, you know, I’ve, you mentioned, you know, drone branch. Um you know, for us, this is a capability that’s gonna be um I think resident in every formation at every echelon. So we don’t, we see this is integrated in into our formation, not some separate piece. Um And, and I think we need that kind of flexibility. We’re actually doing that right now with our formations. Um We have uh we selected three units to kind of work this out and start to transform and contact in doing this, but I don’t think it would be helpful to have a separate drone branch. Understood. Thank you, Senator Baldwin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, um uh Secretary Warmth, as you know, the tactical wheeled vehicle industrial base is an important part of the Wisconsin economy as well as a vital contributor to the army’s warfighting requirements. I remain troubled by the army’s lack of careful management of the industrial base as I see it. Um the army uh has now awarded the joint light tactical vehicle contract to an organization with no experience making J LTV. S. That company must now stand up a brand new production line, risking a gap in fielding this critical platform. So, Secretary Warm, what is the status of this new J LTV line and supply chain?

And will the new vendor uh meet the required schedule for production and fielding?

Um Has the army identified any technical schedule or financial risks?

And under what circumstances will the army negotiate a bridge contract with the incumbent manufacturer Oshkosh defense to avoid any gaps in production?

And I can repeat those because I gave you quite a few. Thank you, Senator Baldwin. Um At this time, we are not anticipating any problems in the shift from uh from Oshkosh to am General. Um as you, as you rightly pointed out, am General has not made J LTV previously. Um But one of the things that I think will provide a P A bridge if you will and allow AM General to be fully prepared is the fact that we are keep the production line open with Oshkosh using replenishment funds so that I think will allow us to make a smooth transition. We are also, um, you know, in addition to heavy tactical vehicles, medium tactical vehicles are very important to us. And so we have extended the period of performance for the contract with Oshkosh on those vehicles. But, um, can you update us on the status of the new line and the supply chain and whether you believe the new vendor will meet the required schedule for production fielding Senator, I’m confident the new vendor will meet the schedule, but I am happy to have Mr. Bush. Our assistant Secretary for acquisition and his team come and brief you in detail on what we’re seeing right now. With that company. Uh the army routinely submits a budget with a request for tactical wheeled vehicles at numbers substantially below industry’s minimum sustaining rate. Expecting this committee to make up the difference for many years. I have pressed the army to adequately fund these platforms and we are here today looking at another inadequate budget request ahead of this year’s budget. I sent you a letter asking that the fiscal year 2025 budget reflect more realistic procurement numbers. And again this year, the budget request is insufficient. Last week, I asked Secretary Austin to engage the office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for industrial based policy in analyzing the army’s management of these programs. Secretary Warmuth, will you work with the Assistant Secretary on a plan for future army budget requests that better sustain the industrial base?

And can I expect to receive the forthcoming tactical wheel vehicle strategy that is due this coming summer?

We would be happy to work with the Assistant Secretary for industrial programs. Um to get you that information, Senator, we work closely with that part of the Office of Secretary of Defense on a regular basis and we’ll work with them to get you the report. I I would say, you know, one of the challenges that General George and I have with the flat army budget is um trying to balance if you will investment in enduring systems like our vehicles and pursuing the ambitious modernization program that we have. It’s always a challenge to determine how to allocate that incremental dollar. And I think to, to continue to support our um our uh modernization program, you see us stretching out if you will some of the investments in the ground vehicles. Thank you, Mr. Chair, Senator Bozeman. Uh Thank you, Mr. Chair and vice chair and thank you all for being here. We appreciate uh your leadership and I know unwavering commitment not only to our soldiers but also and as importantly their families. Uh I understand the CDI unmanned aircraft system was developed as a joint urgent operational need which allowed for rapid ac acquisition. This resulted in some steps of the standard process being abbreviated. For example, the totally armor, the total army munitions requirement for the Coyote missile is still being determined. Without this, it is hard for the army to or indus industry to forecast accordingly and know what to expect in future. Budget and contracts. Secretary. We, what is the army doing to finalize this documentation so that the army and industry can use it as the basis for Cody’s long term planning and investment. Thank you, Senator. We’re um we have been rooking our total minimum requirements for munitions and for things like the Coyote interceptor. Uh And I think there’s a general recognition that given what we’re seeing in Ukraine, that we need to increase our stockpiles of munitions and counter UAs capabilities. So, uh we are working on that right now. I think General George and I both believe that we need to invest more in counter UAs capabilities, which is why you see some of that on his, um, his unfunded priority list. But given that the chief sets requirements, why don’t I let him speak to that in particular?

Yeah, the uh the coyote is a perfect example of, of, of where we need to head. It’s, it’s been, um, you know, we’ve sent users, developers testers for, we’ve made it as the battlefield has changed, we’ve made, you know, adjustments. Um One of our, we were gonna, we were looking to actually acquire more coyotes. Some of the problem was we couldn’t increase production because of the continuing resolution and some of those changes, th this is one area of Senator where I think, um, flexible funding and I know sometimes that can be a bad word, but within the counter uasuas and ew portfolios would really help us. The battlefield is changing very, very rapidly, you know, and, and I’m talking days and weeks, sometimes you’re lucky to get, you know, things changing in a month. Um But as it changes, we need to be able to, you know, go back to and we have the best industry in the world um to go back and say, hey, we need to change this. We need to up the quantity Coyote was one of those was one of those examples. And that would also help us, you know, if there is continuing resolutions, if we had that built in that we could make those adjustments. Um and that’s what we were faced with last fall and it was tough to make those um adjustments in stride, very good. Uh The defense industrial base in Camden, Arkansas remains at the forefront of critical munitions production for our national defense. We anticipate multiyear procurement Authority will improve production rates in the long term and send a much needed demand signal to our industry partners. Your joint statement also highlights the need for further investments in order to ensure that the nation can scale the production of critical munitions and systems to meet current and future operations. Um Secretary Warm uh General George, can you speak to what these investments should entail?

And again, does the budget uh that’s being proposed does it meet the army’s demand for munitions?

Thank you, Senator. This budget um has over $3 billion in it for munitions because again, I think there’s a recognition that we have to build up our stockpiles. So that includes money for Gimler pack three, which you know, which we’ve got the multiyear authority for Javelins 155 millimeter, you name it. And in addition to the $3 billion for the munitions themselves, the budget also includes a billion dollars for investing in the army’s own organic industrial base. So that so that the various depots, arsenals and ammo plants can, can be more capable of producing, you know, faster and in larger capacity. So I think we’re really trying to get after it in this budget in that area. Uh Thank you madam chair. Thank you, Senator Murphy. Uh Thank you very much, uh madam chair. Thank you both for being here and for your service. Uh It sounds like Senator Moran predicted uh my opening line of questioning uh here. Uh Listen, iii I think we’ve made a really bad bet uh on doubling down on uh tilt Roader technology that has proved to be deadly and has proved to be wildly expensive. Um From March 2022 to November 2023 we had 20 service members die in four separate fatal osprey crashes. This was after the Department of Defense said in February of 2023 that they had fixed the problem, the hard clutch engagement problem that it was thought to be behind earlier crashes, they were 99% certain that the problem had been fixed. And then there were four crashes where 20 more service members died. Um This is in addition to the program being wildly expensive cost per flying hour have spiked by 22% just between 2019 and 2020. And so the decision to double down on the tilt rotor program with a tilt rotor selection is part of the future vertical lift program sounds disastrous and wildly costly for this committee. Reports are that the tilt rotor bid was twice that of the competing bid. And then you have all of this evidence that you haven’t fixed the safety problems. So, Secretary Warmth, can you explain a how the army can justify moving forward to the new tilt rotor aircraft when we can’t even figure out how to address the safety issues with the existing osprey and how we are going to account for a tilt rotor program that is known for its tendency for cost escalation. How can you guarantee that this isn’t going to become just a giant cost on this committee uh As the costs escalate in the new tilt rotor program as they have in the Osprey program. Thank you, Senator. Um, a couple of things on that. So on safety, you know, certainly we’re, we’re concerned always anytime we see a helicopter crash or an airplane crash, whether it’s the Osprey or, you know, we’ve had some crashes of our apaches. Um But one of the things I think that the Flora program will benefit from is over 20 years of safety experience with the Osprey and lessons from the Ospreys. So we will be factoring all of that and learning from all of them that uh and again, no helicopter is perfect. They are inherently, um you know, there, there can be challenges, but I think we will benefit greatly from the long track record and be able to learn lessons in terms of safety from Osprey more broadly to your point about costs. Um Again, we looked at not just costs when we considered the bids that came in but also performance. Uh And so I think we, we’re, we have to weigh that. And as you know, ultimately, the GAO found that our decision to go with Bell Textron was sound. So we will continue to look very closely at cost and we’ll monitor cost growth, but we also need to be looking at performance. And we felt that the uh Bell Textron proposal would give us the performance that we need. Um a couple of years ago, uh The army’s number one modernization priority was the future attack reconnaissance aircraft program. Um The army reversed itself, cancel that program which is gonna put us in a position to have to rely on the Black hawk in the short term to do a lot more work. And yet this budget request includes only $25 million in army research and development funding for Black Hawk modernization, which just doesn’t sound right given the fact that now that you aren’t building uh a new future attack reconnaissance aircraft, you are going to need to very quickly scale up and modernize the Black Hawk. So how do we make sure that we invest in the Black Hawk program?

Um in part as a means to balance out what we’ve lost with the cancellation of the Far A program. Thank you, Senator. Um One thing the army is doing to, to um as part of our rebalance of the aviation portfolio is to pursue the reconnaissance requirements in a different way, really relying on much more of space based sensing, the combination of space based sensing, existing platforms and uh things like future tactical unmanned aerial systems and what what we were previously calling air launched effects. But really we’re now just calling launched effects. So inherent in our decisions in the rebalancing is the fact that we believe we can meet that requirement in a different way. As you point out, we do need to continue to invest in Black Hawk. And I think there are things that we could do if Congress decided for example, to give us more money for research and development. In 25 for Black Hawk, we could work on the fly by wire capabilities. We could work on um more, doing more with the improved turbine engine, which is going to be critical, not just for Black Hawk, but also for Apache. So there are projects I think we could pursue. Um but I would leave it there. Thank you, ma’am. Uh madam chair, Senator Murkowski. Thank you madam chairman and welcome. Good to see you madam Secretary General. Thank you for being here in your leadership. Um We talk a lot about the, the various aircraft, the equipment, but I think we, we know that as good as that may be if we fail to invest adequately in our soldiers, that’s where we fail. That’s where we have the vulnerabilities. So we’ve had these conversations before about how we really take a whole of, of person approach in addressing the physical, the mental, the emotional, um even the spiritual needs of our, of our soldiers. Um We’ve had the discussion about conditions in Alaska and some of the challenges that that present themselves uh that often contribute to mental health struggles. One of the things that we have found that is amazing in its effort. It’s ability to uplift morale is this program that we authorized in the FY 23 NDA A and this is the fly back home when particularly a junior service member who is maybe in Alaska and calls New York or Maine home, the cost of an airplane ticket is prohibitively expensive. And so when we put this in place, what we saw was not only, um, not only good, strong usage of it but I, but excitement about what it did, it basically gave people something to look forward to. And, uh, uh, in terms of a mental health boost, it was really quite considerable. So, General George, I would ask if you would speak to the value of such a program for our soldiers and, and secretary, if you can then comment as to whether the army intends to restart the fly back program. Um Thanks Senator and I agree with you, your comment up front that our edge is our, is our soldiers and, and making sure that we’re investing in them. Um We’re really proud, I think a lot of things that we have done and we have seen General Eifler in the 11th Airborne Division up there has informed, uh, things across the army. Um, so they’re doing great and first and foremost is they’re doing great training um, up there. And, you know, we’re continuing to invest in that because I think that that’s critically important and I know you’ve had an opportunity, um, to see that. Um, what we like to say is that every location is unique and we need to be able to do unique things like the Fly Back Home program that’s very unique, you know, given where they’re at. Um, and, and is helpful for us and I think that we have to look at every installation like that. A little bit different. I will, I will tell you that, um, Alaska is near the top, you know, we offer, um, stations of choice. It, there’s a lot of people that wanna go up and, and serve in Alaska that has helped, you know, with us, um, for our recruiting. And I think it’s, uh, one, it’s, they want to come up to Alaska and experience that, but it’s also because they do a really good job of, of taking care of their soldiers and their families. And I think it starts there. We’re trying, we’re making some headway. But, uh, again, these little things, secretary, can you comment on whether or not there’s any intention to restart the program?

Certainly, Senator Murkowski, I think what I’d like to do is, you know, as, you know, um, we have the fly home program. We also have the remote conditions and austere incentive pay for Wainwright and J Bear, uh, and have spent, I think over $25 million on that. And then our, uh, vice chief right now is, is really stepping back and reviewing our mo for the entire 11th Airborne Division to see if we’re investing in the way that we need. What I’d like to do is commit to you to look at whether, um, to look at the cost benefits of restarting the fly home program, we are under a flat top line. So every dollar we’re constantly in a Peter and Paul situation. But I, I know it was a popular program and I would commit to you that we will look at that. But I’d like to look at it in the, in the context of some of the other programs that we’re doing. And since you raised the IMT it, it really does speak to, to the, the, the gaps that we’re seeing there with the 11th, um, including the lack of the, the lack of the MTO, the equipment that define what equipment is appropriate for the Arctic, the lack of the division artillery, the lack of sustainment brigade, the lack of an aviation headquarters. So I’m glad to know that you’re, you are reviewing that. Um I’m hopeful that we’re going to see some, some progress on this soon that um this is not something that we’re gonna be studying for a long while. I think we, we recognize what we put, what has been put in place with, with the 11th. Um, the focus on the, uh the Arctic strategy and the need to emphasize the dom uh the dominance there, but we have to have it all lined up. We just can’t have it in name only or in title only. I think you both recognize that. So I don’t know if you can inform me as to timing on what we might expect for progress on this general, do you know?

Yeah, we’re, we’re getting together and having these discussions. I just would tell you, Senator, um the things that I think we need to grow, first and foremost, with structure is counter UAs capabilities, counter UAs batteries. Um I think we need to grow additional integrated error in missile defense. Um And we need to grow some long range fire. So we’re obviously looking at it, this, you know, total army analysis is something that we’re, you know, need to do. We did up Gunn the aviation, you know, oversight up there and added some slots um to do that to make sure that we’re, you know, kind of have the right oversight up there with that. Um But I I’m just putting it in context that if we’re gonna grow capabilities, um it would be my recommendation that we would grow some of these other things. First, I’m not saying that those aren’t all, you know, that aren’t important. Um but we would need to grow those other capabilities first. We’ll look forward to working with you and getting the updates on this. Thank you, madam chairman. Thank you very much. Um Thank you to both of you for, for being here today. It’s, it’s great to be here today to talk about what resources the army needs in the coming year and to make sure we’re supporting the men and women in uniform who keep all of us safe. I wanna be sure that we deliver the investment, your service needs and it’s critical we also provide adequate funding for agencies across government because as we talked about with Secretary Austin, the Department of Defense does not operate in a vacuum. If we fail to properly fund state and other departments, then our nation is less secure and will end it, end up having to sp spend more money on the Pentagon. Not to mention we families more vulnerable to threats like wildfires and pandemics and fentanyl and, and other crises. So with that in mind, I’m glad to have you here today and I just want to discuss a few things and one of them is childcare. One of the main challenges I hear from joint base Lewis McChord in my home state of Washington, is that maintaining adequate staff for its child Child Development Center is a problem. If you don’t have staff, they can’t provide childcare and without safe quality childcare, it’s really difficult for our service members to accomplish their mission requirements, women service members in particular report that lack of childcare jeopardizes their career opportunities in FY 24 Senator Tester and I secured 100 and 67 million to fully fund the Department of Defense’s childcare initiatives. And I’m glad you were able to reopen A CDC at JB LM in January. However, staffing constraints are still preventing it from operating at full capacity. Secretary warm have the benefits DOD offers for childcare workers shown to be an effective tool for recruitment and retention. I think the the um incentives are helping us. Absolutely chair Murray. Uh, you know, we, we offer a recruiting bonus and we also have retention incentives. We have been offering a uh 50% discount on a worker’s first child, you know, attending the CDC as well. We’ve also had a pilot opening up commissary benefits to our CDC workers. Those are helping us, but, but is there something else we should be doing?

Um I think one of the things that are big challenge for us is the time it takes to hire civilian workers. So figuring out frankly to be blunt how we can make USA jobs more effective, um, to shorten the time it takes to hire civilian workers. That would be, how long does it take?

It takes in some cases more than 100 and 80 days. So they take something else. So they take another job. That’s right. And at places like JB LM, we’re at about 70% staffing and that’s something that’s controlled by O PM. It’s outside of the army. But I, I, and we are doing, we are looking ourselves at what we can do inside the army to speed up civilian hiring, but ultimately USA jobs is a big piece of it. Thank you, General to join just because I just was up, um, at JB LM, Senator Murray and obviously been stationed there. Um, so I think every location is a little bit different. JB LM is one of the areas that were, that were short, probably more than other locations and a lot of areas that are, you know, we’re well above 90% in the hiring. So, um, we’re dealing with this in different areas and I know that I’ve read something recently. There’s more than 40,000 shortage nationwide, you know, for child care. So I think we’re competing. One of the things that we’re looking at again, every location is unique and different is how do we also, in addition to what the secretary mentioned, as far as commissary we’ve done, that’s worked as a privilege up there, giving them money off if they have kids and we’re actually offering them access because sometimes it spouses to housing a little quicker. Housing is a very another um challenge it’s up there. And then I think we also have to look at the pay um that we’re doing and I don’t think we need any help with that, but, you know, do we, is it a what grade is it that we could maybe go up a little bit?

Um but I did want a foot stump on the USA jobs and the challenge um just with, with that kind of hiring, it’s, it’s an old system and I think that that could be up updated. Ok. Well, you mentioned housing and that’s the other thing I hear about all the time. We’re still seeing issues with mold with rodents with the availability of suitable and affordable housing, especially at JB LM. I’ve as many as 650 service members and their families are spending anywhere from 3 to 12 months in a hotel or other accommodation while they wait for a home on based or become available. These service members and their families need to have a safe, reliable, affordable place to live period. So talk to me, secretary warm about what you’re doing to ensure housing needs are met at both on and off base. Thank you. Uh We’re doing a few things in this year’s budget. For example, we have investment for 100 and 38 new homes, 250 renovations of homes and $400 million for sustainment of existing army owned family housing. Uh In addition to all of the money, the $2.1 billion that we’re putting into barracks for unaccompanied soldiers. We also continue to work extremely closely with our five privatized housing partners to make sure that they are providing quality housing to make sure that they have enough maintenance workers, you know, to make sure that they are uh taking care of the privatized homes. So we absolutely still have challenges. Chair. Uh But I think we are trying very hard to reduce the problems with mold and long waits for maintenance. Do you have anything you wanted to add?

I just would add um Senator up there. What one of the things that uh we do that’s unique to JB LM is we have a uh an office there that does rental agreements to help. Um, because again, it’s, it’s a specific problem up there and, you know what the housing market over the last several years has gone up there. Um, where soldiers don’t have to pay, uh, you know, to get several credit checks. It’s one thing, um, they don’t have to put in big deposits. So we’re, we’re doing other things as well and we’re doing that, we’re doing that with the community, which again, I think that that’s what we’re gonna have to do is tailor, you know, some of those solutions um locally because the truth is that about 30% of our, you know, force lives on, on base, you know, in, in family housing. So we’re gonna have to work with the local communities really across the country um As to solve this. Thank you, Senator Capito. Thank you and thank you both, not just for your service, but for being here with us today. It’s good to see both of you again. Uh My questions are, uh first of all, I want to ask about steer, obviously, we’re, we’re facing more cyber threats at every level and uh in every aspect of our critical infrastructure. And from what I understand, the Guard is already playing a critical role in domestic response to cyber attacks including through our critical infrastructure battalion at the Army Interagency Training and Education Center in my State of West Virginia. This unit supports a number of Dod and DH S programs. Uh, is there a more direct role for the National Guard to play in Cyber specifically using them as a liaison force between the federal government, the States and the local and state critical infrastructure. Do you all have?

Uh, what would your response to that be?

Yeah, Senator, I think what I would say is, you know, we, we try to leverage all of the cyber expertise across all three of our components, Active Guard and Reserve. And certainly there’s a lot of great cyber expertise in the Guard. I I think trying to have a one size fits all program with the guard is challenging because frankly, the level of expertise varies from state to state and also frankly. So, you know, 85% of our critical infrastructure is in the private sector. And so there’s an a tremendous amount of diversity. But I can tell you that I know uh General Barrett who’s the, the army. Cyber commander works very closely with the Guard uh to try to make sure that we’re making the best use of them and that we’re also retaining frankly, that capability, which is very in demand right now. General George, do you have a response?

Yeah, I just would. Um and having deployed with some of these experts in the in the guard, I think what makes them very unique when they come into your formations is a lot of them work this in their daily jobs and, and really keep up a, a skill level which is, which is really helpful for us. So we are constantly looking, we’re in discussions right now with the guard on, you know, what adjustments we need to make. I do think that um that is part of our continuous transformation looking at how we um our, our, our cyber formations. Again, I, I think that’s one of the things that’s made the world much smaller with space and cyber. Um So we’re constantly evaluating how we can get better in that space. Good, good. Well, yeah, on Friday, uh we had a great announcement uh in Huntington, West Virginia at Marshall University and a Marshall University, West Virginia University collaboration. They’re, they’re friends now unless they’re on the football field is what uh what the bottom line was there. But uh it was the Dod National Center for Excellence for cybersecurity and critical infrastructure. They’re trying to develop the workforce, but it’s a really great collaborative effort between private sector, uh academia, the Dod and uh the Guard and us cyber com. So, uh I, I think we’re moving in the great, great direction in West Virginia, very excited about the potential for that project in our home state. Um My other question, my next question is on army soldier led innovation programs uh providing obviously weapons to Ukraine uh illuminated some of our shortfalls and some of where we’re doing really well. And I’ve been a big supporter of soldier, soldier led innovation through the army de coms Pathfinder program and the Accelerating Force program, these programs help to tradition transition our weapons uh and our tech by actually putting it in the hands of our military in um before they’re a, it’s actually as an experimentation type of thing. So you can get on the ground. Um uh Reactions from folks that are gonna be using these weapons. What lessons can be learned?

Um What is the army’s plan to increase funding for these types of soldier driven innovation programs?

And uh can we get new technology solutions into soldier’s hand for experimentation?

Because I think it will, will uh bring great um successes to us. So general, I don’t know if you want to start with that. Sure, I’m wishing there was more time on the clock to talk about this one. So we are, we’re doing what we’re calling transformation and contact and I would love to have our team come up here. Um And, and kind of lay that out what we’re doing. But I, I, what we’re doing is exactly what you, you know, if you infuse a formation with technology and then see how they actually use it. And we have the developers that are down there that make software adjustments, we have the drones that are there and we make adjustments to them. That’s what we’re doing. So we have a brigade that’s um gonna go over to Europe. We have a brigade now in the 101st. Um, we have a brigade that’s out in the Pacific and they’re getting, we’re fixing their network. Um, we’re adding e electronic warfare, UAs, counter UAs all of those capabilities. And what this means is we’re not gonna buy stuff, you know that, say, hey, this is gonna be here with us for 20 years. We’re gonna innovate exactly what you’re talking about. I just was down at, um, at Stewart. Um, and I know we have partnerships with universities in West Virginia and they are innovating Clay County. They’re making their own. Um, as an example, they turned what had been a, a vehicle that was, uh, you know, manned, they basically turned it into a, a breaching vehicle. It was completely automated. So, I mean, there, these are soldiers that are doing these things, um, they’re able to come up with how we can 3D print parts that cost $20 and, you know, took us six months to get to do actually 3d printing, um, 16 of them within a minute and they cost 12 cents each. So these are soldiers that are doing these things. I think that technology has changed that much. We’re gonna have to adjust with the times. Well, thank you. It also seems to me and you, and my time is up but not only is it a cost saving on the production, but you’re not wasting money on things that may not in theater actually perform. Exac exactly as as intended or as thought could be. Thank you all, both for being here. It’s good to see you. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Coons. Um Thank you, Chair Murray. Um And thank you for the opportunity uh to be with you both today for your service and for your leadership, uh Secretary Warmer and General uh George. Um I look forward to following up with you if I can briefly on three things. One that I may have missed the full conversation on because I have three committee hearings at the same time. Um really grave concerns about force protection and the countering the drone threat. Um Second, the state Partnership program which I think has shown real benefits in Ukraine and in a dozen other countries, I’ve been to in Africa and Southeast Asia and in Central America. Uh but first, the Global Fragility Act, um five years ago, um President Trump signed a law, a bill that Senator Graham and I worked on for years to try and come up with a common approach. This is modeled on Plan Columbia and how we took a combination of dod state department, a ID over a decade to come up with a common approach to dealing with a fragile state that was not yet a failed state. Colombia 2530 years ago was a disaster. It was a mess, but it was still savable, salvageable. And so a joint strategy effort between dod state and A ID successfully moved it back into the column of countries we can work with. Um We really have struggled to get dod engagement and implementation. Um And there was several years ago, a decision made by the lead agency state to prioritize a few countries. Papua New Guinea Mozambique coast of West Africa. I just met with the four star responsible for Africom um pressed on the frankly deteriorating security situation in the Sahel and coast of West Africa. Um and would urge you to engage in um providing even modest resources to coast of West Africa. Recognizing that withdraw or removal of equipment and forces from is a sensitive and difficult subject to discuss in full here. I would welcome your active engagement. I recognize this often falls to the bottom of the list. But as we saw in Southwest Asia, there are countries that are sort of off our list of priority countries until suddenly they are at great expense and a great loss of life. So I’d be interested in any brief response, madam Secretary or a chance for a follow up conversation. Certainly Senator happy to do a follow up as well. Briefly, I would say, I think where the army can be most helpful in that regard is through our Security Force Assistance Brigade, you know, which we have one aligned to each combatant command. So General Langley works with our Security Force Assistance Brigade to try to build interoperability, build up the security forces in those countries. That’s I think where we could make the best contribution. I’m intimately familiar, President Ruto of Kenya is here this week for a state visit. He’s been a tremendous security partner, Kenya generally uh in the counter al Shabaab work that’s very difficult and dangerous in Somalia. Um but we do not have a comparable platform or plan for coastal West Africa Post Sahel And I’m very eager to work on that. Um I’m also concerned about force protection for our forces who are in fobs in Eastern Syria or in Somalia. Um And just hope that you recognize the urgency of this. Um I was interested in hearing Senator Capo’s questions about um soldier led innovation. We don’t have three years or two years to deploy. I saw the Coyote system in a recent visit to Iraq and to Jordan. I’ve seen some of the other options. I just don’t think we’re moving fast enough. What’s your sense of what we might be able to do to support faster force protection solutions for very low tech, easy to deliver drones. So I, I agree with you and I was having this conversation with Senator Collins. Uh I do think we need to move faster and we are doing that. We are basically taking everything that we have available um and putting it in the Middle East and again, it’s kind of the, it’s the user what Senator Capito was talking about where you actually have soldiers that are on the systems, the developers and the testers that are all right there. And we have our directed energy that’s over. We just directed that the high power microwave system that we’re doing is, is gonna go over there immediately. Um, because I think we have to spin this a whole, a whole bunch faster. Um, we did, you know, a lot has changed in that work and that was why it was on, on the unfunded priority list to ask to get um because of what’s changed in the Middle East since, since last October. Um And then this is another area and I know I’ve mentioned this where I think we have to be more flexible in our funding approach so that when we have uh something that’s research I is working well and we know we need to procure more of those systems and I can give you examples of, of certain systems that we’re doing better um that we wouldn’t have to wait, that we could do that, you know, we could come over and notify the committee and then, you know, do a certain wait period and then go ahead and do that. And, and we would love to work with you on that. But I think we have to turn the wheel a lot faster on count given the Houthis, given the proximity, given Al Shabaab and given where our forces are and how they’re deployed. I am as concerned about forces in Somalia and Northeastern Kenya as I am about forces in, in Iraq and Syria. And I hope that, that elevates last in a sentence. The State Partnership program 30 years old. Um I think we’ve got every one of our state National Guards. I think Maine has Montenegro. Um I think you’ve got Malaysia or Thailand. Um, and I think you have gal and if I’m not mistaken, we’ve got Trinidad and Tobago. I have visited SPP partnerships in a dozen countries, particularly in the Baltic States and in Ukraine where they’ve made an amazing difference. Um Please continue to support it robustly and I will continue to advocate for that. Thank you very much. Thank you, uh Senator Hoeven. Thank you, madam, chair, Secretary General. Thanks for being here. Thanks for your service. Appreciate you both very much. Uh Secretary um Given the magnitude of the challenge that we face, it’s critical that the Army National Guard maintain the capabilities to integrate seamlessly into the fight. And I know you support that. Uh we funded 12 MQ one C Gray Eagle aircraft in fiscal 2023 which supports one army Guard division. I’m concerned that that’s not enough. Um Will you commit to ensuring parity across the force for the MQ One C Gray Eagle?

Senator Hoeven, our, our plan with the Great Eagles is we, we have planned to have 12 companies associated with divisions. Uh I think we have about half of those on contract right now and we’ll, our plan is to have the additional uh completed by the end of this fiscal year, we still have to work through. What are the criteria for stationing those Gray Eagles uh with our National Guard and uh General Hogenson and General Jensen will be putting together those criteria and making sure that they’re shared with the Adjutants General, so that states, you know, have visibility into the process as we think through stationing. But that’s our plan right now for Gray Eagle. Ok. Also one of the things that go with that is standing up a schoolhouse um in regard to training for the uh Gra Eagle as well. And I have uh talked to, to uh both uh members of the army and the Guard in regard to doing that because we think we have a very good proposal for you uh in North Dakota. That would be a very cost-effective way to do it. And so we would look forward to discussing that with you as you stand up this mission in the guard. Ok. I certainly look forward to discussing that. Thank you. I appreciate it. So, uh we’re seeing drones transform the battlefield uh and certainly Ukraine other places as well. Um Army recently canceled plans for several new aviation platforms and, and seems to be rethinking its its requirements on the battlefield. What, what role do you envision unmanned aircraft, both large and small playing for army in the future based on what we’re seeing in the current conflicts. Um Senator I, I was gonna tag on to your previous one. Please do. Go ahead what we, what we were because it’s related. I think to what you were talking about, we, we are gonna need unmanned systems in all of our formations. We’ve been meeting with uh a large group of, of tags and the division commanders had a lot of discussions with them about how all of our formations are gonna have to transform and that we’re gonna need this kind of technology at every echelon and do in doing that and making those adjustments. So I think it not just Gray Eagle, what we’re gonna need is short range, medium range. It’s gonna have to be um inside of our formation. We did cancel. Um And I don’t know if you’re referring to like shadow and, and Raven, those were 25 year old systems. They were great um 15 years ago. Um But what we can’t do is keep something in the formation that we know is not gonna be effective on the battlefield. And um you use Amazon Home Depot. I mean, all these, there’s a lot of great small companies out there that are really moving quickly with unmanned systems. And what we’re trying to do is build a modular open system architecture where we can put different systems and sensors on them. And I think that we will be able to adapt to that rate of change if we’re, if we take that model right on. I mean, we’ve got to look at and I know you always do and I know you are, we’ve got to look at what’s going on in the ba battlefield right now and, and the whole US drones large and smaller are changing the dynamics for all of the services, not just Air Force or, you know, navy, but for you, for the Marine Corps, everybody, we do a ton of work in unmanned aviation in Grand Forks, North Dakota. Uh a lot of counter UAs we have 900 miles of border responsibility. We have uh customs and border protection co located with the airbase there. We have a technology park there. We have all the major players in this area, but it’s not only what we do offensively with these drones, it’s what we do to counter them too. And so I would like to invite you to, to come to and see what we’re doing, but also because we can’t be shooting million dollar missiles to take down a $500 drone and swarms. We’ve got to get on top of this. We’re working very hard on that and we wanna work with you to advance that. So I’m inviting you as well to come see what we’re doing, but to work collaboratively on this, not just for the guard, but for all the services dod. Y I’m gonna try to get up there before. It’s uh, January and February since I’m from the mid, from the Midwest. So here’s the good news. If you come during the nice weather, you get nice weather. If you come during the cold weather, we got the best hockey you’ve ever seen. We’ll take you to hockey game. But, but again, thanks to both of you for your service. All right, vice chair call, last questions. Thank you, madam, chair General. First, let me say, I was delighted to hear you talk about 3D printing and the possibilities that it can contribute enormously to our national defense. The University of Maine has one of the largest, if not the largest 3D printer and has printed everything from a boat to a home. It’s just amazing what they’ve been able to do. They’re also doing a lot of work on ballistic protections for our troops uh using composites. So, uh it’s very exciting the work that’s going on and I’m glad to know uh that you see the promise as well. Um I want to talk about what I think is or ask you about what I think is one of the unappreciated consequences of the supplemental and that is that the replenishment funding help to modernize the army. I think that’s been lost in this debate that it gives you better capabilities. So general, could you please describe how the replenishment funding is helping the army replace its legacy weapons with more modern capabilities. Oh, a real quick example. Senator is, um, 11 threes are very capable vehicles, but we are now moving on and everyone that we have provided we are now buying AMP VS. Um, and so we were up, you know, we’re, we have a better system, same thing with, uh, Bradley’s that we have done and, and what we’re doing to buy, um, you know, a more advanced model. So, and then the other thing is to uh for a lot of that, for the supplemental 80% or more of it was coming back into our own industrial base and what we’re doing. Um And what we’re doing right here. So, um yeah, we’re not buying any old stuff, we’re buying new equipment with what we’re getting and that’s a real advantage. And your point is well taken that the vast majority of the funding in the South supplemental actually goes to American industrial companies and creates good jobs. So it’s important as far as sustaining our industrial base and strengthening it as well. Um Secretary, I understand that last month, the Department of Homeland Security once again requested emergency support from the military for Southwest border operations. And the Pentagon is estimating that the cost will be at least $490 million and most of it’s going to have to be borne by the army. First question has DH S the Department of Homeland Security ever reimbursed. The Department of defense for these additional costs that you’re bearing to assist DH S on the border. I believe senator, that, uh, out of, I think 20 years of supporting DH S, they have reimbursed us one year. I could be wrong on that, but generally they have not reimbursed us for the support we’ve offered, which I think goes to Chair Murray’s point about the importance of adequately resourcing, not just dod but other important agencies like DH S I, I think it does as well and it, but it concerns me because $500 million is not an inconsequential cost and it means you’re gonna have to rob some other underfunded program in order to meet what is a very legitimate need. Um It seems to me that this is a perfect example of something that should have been in the um in the budget request. It’s, it’s not because as you point out this has been going on for many years, uh Would you support an emergency supplemental to cover those costs?

Certainly, I think they could be considered as part of a supplemental. Um You know, we, uh I do want to emphasize that the army has always answered the call. You know, we have, we have been in support of our friends in the custom and border patrol. Um But as you said, it’s a significant outlay for us. I think we’ve already spent $270 million this year. So a supplemental would certainly be helpful for something like this. Thank you. And finally let me just uh reinforce what Senator Coons said about the state partnerships with the National Guard. Uh The one with Maine Montenegro and Main and applying for another partnership right now was tremendously successful in getting Montenegro prepared for its NATO responsibilities and it was just a terrific experience on both sides. So that is a program that I hope we will continue to support. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Moran. Do you have any additional questions?

I do. Thank you very much. Um, a couple of questions in the realm of um, of those who are departing the service in my veterans capacity, um, value of veterans bring to the workforce. There is need for transitioning of service members to be appropriately credentialed and translate their skills that they learned in the military into their next career. Secretary. Do you think a soldier will be more or less hirable after their transition if they have certifications that translate a breadth of experience to potential employers?

I certainly think, um, helping position our soldiers to have credentials and certificates that help them be as marketable as possible when they transition is valuable. And is that happening?

Yes, we have as I’m sure, you know, a credentialing assistance program that we’ve been piloting. It’s been wildly successful. I think part of the challenge the chief and I have is putting up some guardrails around that to make sure that we can afford it again inside of our flat top line. But we, we are supporting our soldiers in getting certifications and credentials. That answer gives me a suggestion that I’ll pursue General George case on delays. Outline the army’s path forward on what conditions you need to meet to resume operations of horse-drawn garrisons at Arlington National Cemetery. I’m gonna mention a couple of things and I’m gonna turn it over to my ranger buddy here on the right because I know she spent a lot of time on this, um, more than I have, but I think we’re looking at Senator, um, is conditions based. I mean, we want to do this. We’re obviously what the support we provide um, at Arlington National Cemetery is sacred to us and, and to all of our, our veterans and we’re trying to stand up this capability. I think we have the right experts that are on board doing that. Um, as well as General Bredenkamp kind of overseeing that hiring the right people, uh making sure and this, you know, the problem we had didn’t, you know, wasn’t created, it took time. And so, um, I think what the approach that we’re taking, I think is a very good one. very sound we can come over and talk to you about it in detail, but I’ll turn it over to my, sure, this is something Senator Moran we’ve been working really hard on and it’s surprisingly complex and challenging. Uh, but I, as the chief said, it’s gonna be several more months before we can offer case on funerals again. And that is because among other things, we have to, we have to buy 30 more horses to have enough horses to provide this very specialized capability. We have to find the pasture land to support those horses. Uh We have now, I think gotten on top of making sure that we have the expert veterinary personnel that we need to help us care properly for these horses and the stables at uh Joint Base Henderson Hall. Myers are gonna have to be recon constructed. So we have quite a bit of work to do before we can operate that particular service, which is so important safely and efficiently but happy to come talk to you in more detail. Thank you. It does demonstrate that nothing is simple, but I appreciate your attention. I think it’s a really important and meaningful experience for veterans, their families, for military service and their families. Thank you. Final question. Um Total army analysis provided details of new counter UAs batteries to be employed as division assets. Is this uh capability on schedule to be delivered to the initial units in FY 24 and through 29. And where is the army accepting risk in the development of this capability?

Thank you, Senator and uh the chief may wanna add on this. We are on schedule, you know, as, as we have said throughout this hearing, building up our counter UAs capability, both the the systems and the formations to be able to perform that function is critical. And so we are on schedule right now. I believe that the counter UAs battery coming to Fort Riley is supposed to arrive in FY 29. And we are making it a priority to make sure that we have both the, the equipment that will be needed for that and also the soldiers who can man that uh general, this has been a theme for you today. Sure. I’m happy to add something on Counter U A si think. Um We, we didn’t get an opportunity to talk about recruiting and I think that that’s the most important thing, you know, kind of said that in my up upfront statement about getting people to come into. Um And thankfully, we’re, we’re looking a little bit better, we’re ahead uh slightly ahead of projections and um we’re gonna continue to focus on that. That’s what I think we really need to do um is get the people in and to continue to grow because this is a capability that we need for first infantry division and really everywhere. And then the, it’s also, I will tell you on counter us is something that we’re gonna have to continue to look at capabilities at echelon and what we need to do and we’re gonna have to Contin continuously transform in that area as well. Sherone and I won’t ask a question, but I will conclude when we did not talk about recruitment. It’s one of the most important things on capability of the army to meet our country’s needs I would offer. Uh if there’s uh if you point me in the right direction, one of my goals to help in recruitment is to further expand the availability of junior ROTC in Kansas. And if you want to point somebody in my direction to kind of help me through that process, uh I’d be delighted to help find a school or schools that might be interested in. We have great junior ROTC programs at Junction City and at Leavenworth, I’d like to see that elsewhere. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you to our witnesses today, senators may submit additional written questions. We ask that you respond to them within a reasonable time. The defense sub-committee will next reconvene on Tuesday, June 4th at 10 a.m. for a classified hearing on space related matters with that subcommittee stands in recess.